I’m your host, Michelle Kosinski.
It’s hosted by The Perfect Scam’s former host, Will Johnson.
This is Episode 6, Married & Betrayed.
He told millions of dollars from investors, including their family, friends, and neighbors.
[00:00:45] Will Johnson: Coming up on this episode of AARP’s Perfect Scam.
[00:00:48] I don’t think anyone realized to the degree that he was living a double life.
It was a very devastating, um, indescribable time.
Here to help me do all that is Frank Abagnale.
Frank, good to have you here.
[00:01:36] Frank Abagnale: Thanks, Will, glad to be here.
[00:01:42] Frank Abagnale: Ponzi scams have been around forever and go on every single day.
You give me so much money, I tell you I’m going to invest it in something.
I come back, give you your money back, plus a bunch of money.
And then I come back to you again.
And that is how we got our start.
[00:02:29] Andrea: The church was a big part of my life growing up.
So, he did serve as a bishop for five years, but he wasn’t compensated.
[00:04:09] Will Johnson: Which on the surface would be just fine, right?
[00:04:11] Andrea: Yes, and I believe that’s what I believed he was doing.
[00:04:30] Will Johnson: How did he begin it?
I know that can be confusing.
He had left it off his statements.
I think he had good intentions.
And so, it was too late even then.
[00:05:38] Andrea: He, in the end wasn’t even investing money.
So, you’re really not getting what you think you’re paying for.
The money was not being invested.
[00:06:19] Andrea: Uh-hum.
[00:06:22] Will Johnson: Yeah.
Were they people that you knew?
He, he was constantly cultivating relationships with people.
[00:06:50] Will Johnson: Were there any signs along the way to you?
Did you feel like there was something nefarious going on?
Now, I was just his wife living my life and raising our family.
[00:07:53] Will Johnson: Obviously, within a marriage, there can be secrets.
This is one where he was really leading a double life in a sense.
[00:08:04] Andrea: Absolute 100 percent double life.
I never had a clue he was living a double life ever, in all those years.
[00:08:39] Will Johnson: How many children do you have again?
[00:08:41] Andrea: We have four children.
How did it unravel?
You said he went forward; he came forward eventually?
[00:08:56] Andrea: He did.
Um, in, in March of 2009 he hired an attorney and confessed his crimes to his attorney.
I was the last to find out and it was something I never expected.
It took a while for it to sink in.
[00:09:57] Will Johnson: I, I can’t even imagine what that was like for you.
And did he come to you and he told that one-on-one?
Or did you find out, it wasn’t in the news or anything, right?
You found out from him.
So, I came home, and I met him in the kitchen.
And he said, “I’ve actually been running a Ponzi scheme.”
And I remember saying, “Oh, at least our house is paid off.”
And he said, “No, you don’t understand.
It was a very devastating, indescribable time.
[00:12:30] Will Johnson: Was he apologetic when he came to you?
Or was this, it sounds almost, it sounds almost matter of fact.
[00:12:37] Andrea: Yeah, he, he was a very matter of fact person.
And didn’t ever show a lot of emotion.
It was the worst moment of my life.
I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
[00:13:54] Andrea: Well, it’s a continual process.
Um, I have learned that rebuilding from complete financial devastation and loss takes time.
So, I don’t anticipate ever being able to retire or do anything like that.
[00:14:41] Will Johnson: Have you been able to forgive your husband?
I had to do it thoroughly, and I had to do it completely.
So, I knew that I couldn’t have that happen to me.
So, I worked to forgive him, and I have.
Forgiveness I’ve learned is a continual process.
So, I didn’t want that to be me.
[00:15:57] Andrea: I think his sentencing took place in 2009.
So, he has been in prison all of these years and is still there.
I think people look from the outside.
I had friends accuse me of, you had to have known.
You’re too smart not to have known.
It’s, you just feel very alone.
It was, it was a very, very hard time.
That’s why I tell my story.
[00:18:20] Will Johnson: I’m back with Frank Abagnale.
Frank, it’s a harrowing story Andrea has to tell.
Many wives are not involved in their husband’s business.
they all become a victim.
That was the real thing that kept me from ever going back to doing something.
But the truth is, most of the time they, they don’t know it’s going on.
Especially people who don’t have a lot of money.
You’re like be, be cautious about it.
[00:22:33] Will Johnson: All right, Frank Abagnale, thanks, once again.
[00:22:35] Frank Abagnale: Thank you.
This is her story of how she found out about the scheme and whats happened to her life since.
AARPs Fraud Watch web connection can help you spot and avoid scams.
