I can’t talk to you right now."
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:25] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
Romance scams cost Americans half a billion dollars each year the FBI says.
And the crime is growing fast.
People isolated at home during the pandemic, well that makes them even more susceptible to this crime.
Debbie has asked her sister for help paying the bills, and Ben found out that way.
He doesn’t really understand why, not yet.
Debbie is a widow living in New Jersey.
Her husband died over a decade ago and she only started dating again recently.
She’s in a really bad shape."
[00:01:42] Bob: Oh God.
What was it like getting that phone call?
That’s when he begins to put the pieces together and understand the dark place his mom is in.
[00:02:50] Ben: I mean it was so crushing to read her texts.
So the first was January 23rd, 2018, asked her for $800.
Now it escalated very quickly after that.
One month later, $5000, and a month after that, $7500.
So by April it was $16,000.
I mean just, just escalated quickly.
What appeared to be a very, very big bank account.
I can’t wait to be with you.
Soon as we get through this new issue, I’ll be with you."
[00:05:37] Bob: It was an elaborate ploy to get Debbie’s trust.
The account was fake, the website was fake, and the money was fake.
A lot of it though was cash.
It raises less suspicion.
[00:06:50] Bob: But she was mailing cash to addresses around the United States at one point.
[00:06:54] Ben: Yes, yeah, Arizona, Florida, Texas.
[00:06:58] Bob: It didn’t stop with Joshua.
And it was a hard year.
[00:08:00] Bob: Now there are men who are fawning over her.
And she’s getting the bang out of attention that she hasn’t gotten in 15 years.
Maybe I could help you."
“Oh, could you?
That would be wonderful.”
And she gives them her sign in information for her credit cards and for her bank.
[00:09:02] Bob: Oh my God.
Boom, now he’s got her trust.
She’s like, “Oh my God, thank you, you’ve saved me.”
Then more suitors arrive, and they actually start fighting over Debbie.
You know, and then a third one comes along.
You know, the third one comes along with the same scam.
“I’m on an oil rig.”
And she starts feeding him money.
I don’t think you should be giving him money."
You know, ‘cause he wants the money.
So she did ask friends for money.
You know, “Do you think you could ask the credit card company to increase your balance?”
“Do you think you could sell your house?”
[00:11:15] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:11:46] Ben: “Hey, I’m, I’m here.
I came for a visit,” you know, “Where are you?”
“Okay, great.”
Turns out she was actually running around buying STEAM cards for the scammers during that exact moment.
I, I understand that you’re having financial problems."
Her face just went blank.
[00:12:15] Bob: Debbie has a searing memory of that kitchen table moment, too.
And I said, you know, “I’m running some errands.”
And I, and I said, “About an hour.”
And he goes, “Oh, I’m at the house.
I thought I would surprise you,” which, yeah, that did surprise me.
And then you know what hit the fan.
just stop asking for money.
yo send me money, yo, I can’t pay for my medicine.
I need to have radiation treatment."
[00:13:42] Bob: And she’s begging for help.
She just didn’t know how to get help, right?
But it wasn’t that easy.
And, “No!
No, I mean Joshua’s, he does love me.
He’s, he’s going to pay me back.”
But he doesn’t give up.
And he starts the process of shutting down his mom’s access to bank accounts.
The person who loves you, the person who I would hope you would trust.
[00:15:05] Ben: The day that I confronted her, she was literally texting the scammers.
“Oh my God, my son is here.
I can’t talk to you right now.”
[00:15:19] Bob: So he tries a different tactic.
[00:15:21] Ben: So then we start using tools, right.
As Ben and his mom look through the hits, one really stands out.
Joshua is actually a church pastor in California whose identity had been stolen.
You know, like this is my Joshua, but it’s not my Joshua.
[00:16:42] Bob: Still, Debbie isn’t completely convinced.
[00:16:46] Ben: Even then there was still lingering doubts.
And we’re like, “No.
[00:17:13] Bob: The emotional separation is painful.
There would be no lifetime together, no dancing in the kitchen.
[00:17:19] Debbie: I thought I was just doing the right thing.
(chuckle) Yeah, that doesn’t work.
[00:17:44] Bob: The financial reality is equally harsh.
[00:17:55] Debbie: You’re kidding, right?
You, do you really want me to tell you?
[00:17:57] Bob: I do.
[00:17:58] Debbie: Probably about three hundred thousand.
[00:18:01] Bob: Ben helps his mom begin to put the pieces back together.
But it’s a long road, and far from over.
[00:18:16] Ben: So there’s still a lot of stress.
That’s, that’s 50 years of, of memories to pack up and move someplace else.
So yeah, I mean, that’s the only home I’ve, I’ve known.
She says helping begins with listening in a very non-judgmental way.
[00:19:40] Amy Nofziger: We’re on the outside looking in.
We see this person as a scammer.
But your loved one sees this person as their future, as their hope.
I mean loneliness is, is different things to, to many different people.
But they don’t want to hear it, they’re just happy to have someone to talk with.
That’s why it’s so important for family members and friends to spot these scams early on.
That’s when we want to catch them.
That’s when, you know, they start getting that gut feeling that this doesn’t seem right.
So um, yeah, you’re right.
I mean right there, that’s a susceptibility.
“Um, no, I haven’t, you know, I’m going to take time.”
And so they really are turning the victim against their family and friends.
[00:25:32] Bob: So direct confrontations often don’t work, Amy says.
Instead, she suggests starting the conversation with a series of open-ended questions.
And if they met them online, how do you know that he’s real?
Tell me about him.
What does he do for a living?
Where is he from?
Has he asked you for any money or personal information?
And just remember that strangers are strangers online as they are in person, and treat them as such.
Would you do that for me?
[00:26:14] Bob: Most important of all, don’t attack.
Don’t do anything to shut down the other person.
[00:26:19] Amy Nofziger: You have to keep those lines of communication open.
I was actually working with a victim’s family last week.
I had like five brothers and sisters on the phone with me, and we were talking about this.
Of course I know what I’m doing.
I’m your mother for crying out loud,” right?
So you dont want to go on the attack.
What you want to do is understand where they are, and let them know that you love them.
And that, that you want to support them, take care of them.
Call all your credit cards and get your passwords reset.
Time is of the essence.
By the time we acted, the scammers had already cashed them in and drained them.
[00:29:29] Bob: Finally, he said, consider professional legal and financial help.
The most important step he said might have been a pact put into writing by the children.
We can’t let it ruin our lives.
We can’t let it ruin our relationship with each other.
We all have our action items that we’re pursuing.
We’re tracking it all in a, in a document.
[00:32:23] Bob: That is so wise.
Where does that wisdom come from?
[00:32:36] Ben: That’s my dad.
You know, my dad, like my mom, it was all about family.
[00:33:09] Ben: Thanks for saying that.
Still, Debbie says she’s a survivor, and she’ll make it.
I said, “I dont know how, but I’m going to do it.
I’m going to survive.
It just won’t be easy.”
[00:33:48] Bob: Unfortunately, Christine is still waiting for her mom’s fever to break.
[00:34:04] Christine: I really don’t have a plan at the moment.
I don’t know what more can be done.
[00:34:53] Bob: The point Ben makes of not blaming his mom is a crucial one.
It focuses on something we perceive the victim did wrong.
The AARP Fraud Watch web link has launched a three-year campaign to change this narrative.
If you’re interested in engaging with Team Fraud Watch on this, email fwn@aarp.org.
That’s fwn@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
