Alice has known Joey for years and trusts him completely.
But one morning when she opens her monthly bank statement, everything about her relationship with Joey changes.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:25] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
[00:00:30] Bob: More of us are living alone these days, many, many more.
The US Census says nearly one-third of households include just one adult.
In 1940, it was fewer than 1 in 10.
This is true later in life too.
Far more older Americans are living alone than in the past.
The independence can be great, but there are additional concerns to think about.
And things go well for a while, but then something about him changes.
[00:01:17] Bob: So what made you want to go back to Oklahoma?
[00:01:51] Bob: But you are very brave.
Most people wouldn’t make a big move like that in their 70s.
You’re very brave.
[00:01:56] Alice Dragoo: Well I thought I’d have one more adventure (laughs).
[00:02:01] Bob: Oklahoma – One More Adventure.
That’s the name of your novel right there.
[00:02:05] Alice Dragoo: Yeah.
[00:02:06] Bob: Alice is a planner.
She bought the home back in 2014, but it needed a lot of work.
And he was…
[00:02:34] Bob: How did you meet him?
And you know it wasn’t expensive.
[00:02:55] Bob: And it turns out, Joey is pretty handy.
[00:03:05] Alice Dragoo: If I really needed anything, you know, I could call him.
[00:03:13] Alice Dragoo: Oh he changed the water heater.
Mine burned up, it’s electric.
[00:03:18] Bob: Wow, that’s a big deal.
[00:03:19] Alice Dragoo: Yeah, and then the, the pipes plugged up.
I want to, you know I was fair about it, and he never said he wanted more.
Sometimes he’d say that’s too much.
[00:03:52] Alice Dragoo: He brought his wife and boys over.
And he was a family man.
Totally, he totally he…
[00:04:06] Bob: How old were his boys?
[00:04:07] Alice Dragoo: Oh, they were late grade school at that time.
I would say like 4th and 6th grade, something like that, and when I met them.
[00:04:17] Bob: 10 or 12 or something like that?
[00:04:18] Alice Dragoo: Yeah.
[00:04:18] Bob: Yeah, yeah.
We’d have a pizza party.
He’s like, “I’m mowing your lawn for ya,” he says.
And I says, “Well you don’t have to.”
The little boy idolized his daddy.
I mean, I loved him just as much as I loved my own grandson.
And I got four of the little buggers.
Joey is alone, and it’s clear he’s having a really hard time with that.
And the cost was extravagant, and I didn’t want strangers in my home.
He’s says, “Oh just whatever I get.”
I mean he lost everything.
[00:07:05] Alice Dragoo: Right.
you’re free to’t drive.
I mean that month he took wonderful care of me.
He cooked the meals; he cleaned the house.
[00:07:24] Bob: But timing is everything.
Because I could not afford to feed that man any longer.
[00:08:09] Bob: In fact, they are more than roommates.
It seems Joey really cares about Alice like family.
[00:08:14] Alice Dragoo: Ah, I can’t remember.
I think it was he came home one time and I wasn’t home.
And he got worried about me.
And then he called a couple of my friends and said, “Where’s Alice at?”
They didn’t know.
I had went shopping, and I had forgot to tell him I was going shopping.
[00:08:50] Bob: Yeah.
[00:08:51] Alice Dragoo: And, and he was so shocked.
[00:08:54] Bob: That shows how much you were like family at that point, yeah.
[00:08:56] Alice Dragoo: Yeah.
And see, I trusted him.
[00:09:03] Alice Dragoo: It was.
It was working out good.
He had his privacy, he, I had a big double car garage.
And uh, he was young.
I figured he had his life and his friends.
I didn’t need to interfere.
[00:09:26] Bob: Yeah, of course.
She gives him her debit card and her pin code.
[00:09:46] Alice Dragoo: Oh it was just kind of a soft, not a hard rain.
[00:09:55] Bob: Sure, sure.
[00:09:56] Alice Dragoo: It was just miserable.
[00:10:02] Alice Dragoo: Yeah, and I had no reason to distrust him.
[00:10:06] Bob: And Alice thinks nothing more about it.
Months go by, but slowly things change a bit in their relationship.
Joey begins to date a new woman and so he’s not around as often.
Alice figures that’s okay.
He’s still helping around the house.
[00:10:22] Alice Dragoo: He wasn’t coming home nights.
You know and he always made sure that if he cooked, I had something to eat.
He was a good cook.
And he was kind to me, but he started, little by little, he was not around.
[00:10:49] Bob: Right at about the same time, Alice is in a car accident.
She’s okay, but her car is totaled, and she receives an insurance settlement for it.
Now she has a little cushion.
Alice starts to nudge him about making a change.
You got to have a good paying job."
“Well I’m looking for work.
I’m looking for work.”
[00:11:56] Bob: Wow, what was that like?
[00:11:57] Alice Dragoo: I was mad, hot to trot.
A teller there gives her the bad news.
Her account has been emptied through a series of ATM withdrawals.
I says, “Look, those are all after I’m in bed, you know.
[00:12:21] Bob: Wow.
I can prove I was out of state.
There’s no way I could have drawn that money out.
There is video from some of the withdrawals.
[00:12:55] Bob: It was Joey.
He’d been so good to me before.
I couldn’t understand it.
Well, ‘cause I was so distraught, broken.
I dont, I was just in a state of shock.
[00:14:07] Bob: …taking from you.
That’s, that’s a huge shock.
[00:14:10] Alice Dragoo: Oh yeah.
(chuckles) I’m surprised my old pacemaker let me live through it.
(laughs)
[00:14:18] Bob: Hmm, well thank God it did.
[00:14:20] Bob: She is also staring at a financial nightmare.
[00:14:25] Alice Dragoo: That’s a lot of money at my age.
I can’t go out and work and earn more money.
That was my nest egg.
I could buy things on sale that I would need, and then pay it back.
And I wouldn’t be paying interest to anybody else, credit cards and that.
You know…
[00:14:48] Bob: Yeah, of course.
She also calls Joey, but she doesn’t let on that she knows about the money.
[00:15:30] Alice Dragoo: Yeah, I wanted to talk to him in person.
He looked at me, Alice, I wouldnt do that to you.
He lied straight to my face.
I dont know what Id a done if he said he did.
[00:16:04] Bob: So Alice throws Joey out of her house.
It reads in part, “I’m sorry I let you down.
But I’ve always intended on returning what I borrowed.
I’m sorry for the pain I’ve caused you.
I never wanted to hurt you.
Thank you for helping me.
I’ll swing by and get my stuff.”
Still, when Alice’s daughter arrives, they call the cops.
[00:16:36] Bob: Was it a hard decision to call the police?
[00:16:38] Alice Dragoo: I didn’t, my daughter did.
[00:16:40] Bob: Your daughter did, okay.
[00:16:41] Alice Dragoo: She says, “Mom, we’re calling the police.
This is wrong.”
And she stood beside me.
She stayed here for 4 or 5 days.
[00:16:48] Bob: Alice gives all the evidence she’s accumulated to the police.
She now thinks Joey has stolen some of her belongings as well, but nothing happens for several months.
Then in July 2022, police issue a warrant for Joey.
He’s arrested in October.
[00:17:05] Bob: Do you remember, how did you find out that he was arrested?
I says, What?
[00:17:28] Bob: How did it feel when you saw the news that he was arrested?
[00:17:31] Alice Dragoo: I felt, it’s time.
He has to pay for what he did.
[00:17:44] Bob: Alice attends several of Joey’s court appearances.
During that last hearing, he apologizes to her.
You didnt deserve this.
And I still love you, but I did wrong.
[00:18:32] Bob: But did it feel good to get that first check at least?
[00:18:34] Alice Dragoo: Oh, I felt so good.
At least I knew he was trying.
I felt like this is going to work.
Well then, I didn’t get the other check for three months.
I don’t know if I’m going to get a check today or not.
I could use it.
[00:18:48] Bob: Yeah, how important are those checks for you?
[00:18:50] Alice Dragoo: Very important.
Maybe I can go out and eat once a month with my friend at a restaurant.
Another $149 would make a big difference, right?
[00:19:18] Alice Dragoo: Oh yeah.
Boy would it make a difference.
Itd make my life so much easier … if I could depend on it.
That would take care of my, like right now I had to have a new pacemaker put in.
Well the bill is $246.
Im having to pay $30 a month on that bill.
I got a electric wheelchair Im paying $50 a month on.
Well those will die off middle of next year, cause Ill have those paid off.
[00:20:00] Bob: So for now, Alice takes things month by month, day by day.
[00:20:06] Alice Dragoo: Yeah, I mean you have to.
[00:20:21] Bob: Great.
[00:20:42] Alice Dragoo: Yeah, he walked over to me and tried to hug me.
I hugged him, because I still love him, I just dont like this bad Joey.
The good Joey I love, the bad one, I dont want anything to do with.
[00:21:00] Alice Dragoo: Yeah, it is.
I want to forgive him.
God says we should forgive him.
I can’t forget.
[00:21:05] Bob: Yeah, yeah, sure.
[00:21:07] Alice Dragoo: I mean…
I just, I try real hard to go by what’s right and what’s wrong.
[00:21:15] Bob: How do you feel about Joey today?
[00:21:16] Alice Dragoo: Frustrated.
[00:21:26] Bob: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:27] Alice Dragoo: I don’t need that in my life at this point.
[00:21:31] Bob: Hmm-hmm, hmm-hmm.
[00:21:32] Alice Dragoo: It’s like, the lie.
I, I can’t deal with that.
I’m not going to deal with it.
I’m too damn old to change my ways, you know.
I don’t need that in my life anymore.
[00:21:50] Bob: The incident has left scars on Alice that will not soon heal.
[00:22:02] Bob: But yeah, yeah.
[00:22:04] Alice Dragoo: I, I like people, I really like people.
But I, Im always wondering, what do they want from me?
What are they, why are they being friendly to me?
I dont want that.
Do they like me for me and my personality?
Or do they think they can get something from me?
you’re free to’t trust anybody.
And that’s horrible.
And then now, you have to lock up everything.
And she urges people to set up alerts with their bank to do just that.
[00:23:04] Alice Dragoo: Well, you got to lock up your, talk to your bank.
Have them set up safeguards.
You know send a letter, you know, hey, were kinda worried about your account.
Uh, are you sure these are yours?
Watch it and dont trust anybody with any of your personal information.
[00:23:49] Bob: I think that’s pretty wise.
[00:23:57] Bob: Yeah.
[00:24:15] Bob: You’ve got to watch everything, especially your finances.
I wish life wasn’t like this, but that is how things are.
But also, you have to trust.
As I mentioned at the top of this episode, many of us are living longer and living alone.
And it’s possible for you to’t do everything yourself.
There will be times when you have to trust someone else to help you.
Well, it’s not easy, caring situations that might seem beneficial at first can turn sour.
And it’s very common.
And of course, this situation doesn’t happen to everyone.
Not everyone we invite into the home as a caregiver or a helper, is, is bad.
We do want to trust people, but if they’re not, but can we always?
[00:25:53] Joy Loverde: That’s right.
Now that’s a tough conversation to have.
So most people avoid conflict.
[00:25:59] Bob: Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
For comparison, only 1 in 10 older Americans lived on their own in 1950.
Alice is one of those 10 million women, and her situation is common.
Uh is there, is there a, a generic brand term for what we should be calling this?
[00:26:58] Joy Loverde: Well we, in the industry we call this elder abuse and neglect.
[00:27:09] Joy Loverde: Yes, so it could be physical, mental, financial.
That was something that was running through my mind; most people do not tell anyone.
[00:28:02] Bob: This kind of silence helps criminals get away with their elder abuse.
But the culture of silence around money in general is an enabler too.
I mean we just don’t have that kind of culture.
So it’s, it’s very difficult.
When mom and dad run out of money, it’s everybody’s problem.
It’s not just the parents’ problem.
And don’t we, hardly, many family just don’t think like that.
Especially for this group of adults who wish to live alone at home.
What you were beginning to describe was the process of aging in place and how realistic is that?
Then there’s the financial, right, we’ve been talking about.
Then there’s the legal.
[00:30:36] Joy Loverde: You’re right.
[00:31:09] Bob: You have a book called, “The Complete Eldercare Planner.”
What are the things that, that are surprising to people who are, are in this situation?
So let me give you an example.
What I suggest is that we begin to have conversations with people we are not related to.
And we have caregiving conversations with them.
Who is going to take care of you?
I’m not up for it.
I, it, don’t look to me, but let’s make a plan.
Do you have children?
Do you have a plan?
Do you have professionals in your, in your social and uh professional connection?
[00:32:51] Bob: Hmm, that’s interesting.
People start making demands on your time or your money, or just your emotional headspace, right?
What do we, what do, you know, it happens all the time, Bob.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
[00:33:25] Joy Loverde: Absolutely.
So that broke a lot of barriers.
What is our support connection there?
[00:34:40] Joy Loverde: Well in a minute.
[00:34:41] Bob: Yeah, yeah.
Okay, more than $10 is taken out.
You will get notified.
I think that’s a good idea too.
[00:35:19] Joy Loverde: Right.
These are professionals who do this for a living.
So go to the local bank and um, talk to the trust department.
What, what do you think about it, right?
You want to have those people in place ahead of time.
[00:37:18] Bob: That’s interesting.
That might be even free, right?
[00:37:20] Joy Loverde: Absolutely.
[00:37:43] Bob: That sounds great.
[00:38:00] Bob: Oh wow, that’s, that sounds like a heavy lift.
[00:38:02] Joy Loverde: (chuckles) It is.
[00:38:05] Bob: It can all seem overwhelming, but help is available.
And the key is to get help before you find yourself in a crisis and a vulnerable position.
People just don’t think that there’s help, but there’s so much help.
[00:38:33] Bob: For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch internet Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
