So, Dad, I need you to call this lawyer."
And he gave the dad the phone number.
So the dad, freaking out, then talks to the lawyer.
The lawyer says, “Oh yeah, this is going to be troublesome for your son.
He’s definitely going into custody.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:35] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
Im your host, Bob Sullivan.
[00:00:40] Bob: Cryptocurrency.
It sometimes feels like everyone’s talking about it, maybe everyone’s using it.
But that’s very wrong.
In truth, the vast majority of Americans say they’ve never used crypto, not even once.
But why are we talking about it a lot?
In part because criminals have flocked to crypto.
It seems to be the perfect tool for stealing money over the internet.
And that’s why we’re devoting today’s entire episode to crime and crypto.
And we have the perfect guest to discuss that.
Erin West, a Silicon Valley prosecutor and head of something called The Crypto Coalition.
Here’s our conversation.
[00:01:47] Erin West: My name’s Erin West.
I’m a Deputy District Attorney in Santa Clara County, California.
[00:02:20] Erin West: We think so, yes.
So that’s why we have a special high-tech unit.
[00:02:54] Bob: And increasingly, I understand, that involves crimes involving cryptocurrency, right?
There’s no way to recover stolen cryptocurrency.
And that’s patently false, and really does our victims an injustice.
And so the beauty of the blockchain is that it’s unchangeable and that it’s transparent.
And we can all look at it and see where the money is moving.
So, Dad, I need you to call this lawyer.”
And he gave the dad a, the phone number.
The lawyer says, “Oh yeah, this is going to be troublesome for your son.
He’s definitely going into custody.
[00:06:48] Erin West: Isn’t it amazing?
[00:07:18] Bob: Okay, so how does it really work?
How was Erin and her team able to get money back for those 26 victims?
Let me explain that.
But that also is not true.
There are exchanges located outside the country who are cooperative with law enforcement.
Is, is that…
[00:09:23] Erin West: That’s exactly right.
[00:09:23] Bob: …pretty much how it works?
[00:09:25] Erin West.
That’s exactly how it works.
[00:09:42] Erin West: That is true.
Crypto is great for us.
So I can’t be positive enough about how crypto is a great investigative tool for law enforcement.
[00:11:23] Erin West: To some degree, yes.
So imagine we find your money, we see that it’s at a crypto exchange.
What we will get from the exchange is the KYC, the Know Your Customer information.
So we will find out who the owner of that account is by their name.
so that open an account they’ll have to show picture ID and we’ll see that.
[00:11:59] Bob: And so that makes it much harder to arrest people.
[00:12:02] Erin West: It does.
So for do that, you need friendly countries.
[00:12:40] Erin West: No, that’s not quite true either.
I think there are opportunities, number one, to recover funds.
They use other people or whatnot to obfuscate their identities.
[00:13:37] Erin West: They sure do.
[00:13:38] Bob: Yeah, okay.
Are those machines just like regular ATMS?
This is the new way that we’re moving money for bad guys.
So there seems to be very little, if any, legitimate traditional use for these bitcoin ATMs.
Their sole purpose seems to be to move hard-earned money from victims into the hands of scammers.
It’s not hard to find out.
There are means to do that.
And we should all be well aware of, of where these bitcoin ATMs are.
If you are on the phone with someone who’s directing you, you should probably think again.”
It is literally a scam machine.
[00:15:54] Bob: It’s a scam machine.
Okay, so I have heard, well it’s more than I’ve heard.
But does that mean it’s a, it’s a good idea to use crypto for that purpose?
[00:16:16] Erin West: Well I think it depends.
I’m not saying that all crypto is bad crypto.
Especially if you’ve never met in person the person who’s asking you to move this money internationally.
[00:17:20] Erin West: Absolutely.
Can you send money that way?”
But particularly not crypto.
Is it true that almost everyone is using crypto?
[00:18:11] Erin West: No, I think it’s a funny thing.
I think that isn’t really an accurate reflection of who is actually holding crypto.
So it’s a pretty small number of US adults who are actually involved in crypto.
So not everyone is using crypto.
And we felt like this was something that we could do that would make a difference.
We’ve recovered millions of dollars to give back to these victims.
Can you help me?
And that just didn’t sit right with me.
And it started in September of 2022, and we had 85 members.
I do webinars every three weeks where I have people who can add value to this community.
Um, I had someone who owns a bitcoin ATM company come talk.
I had, had Binance and Chainalysis, and TRM.
I’ve had Coin Base.
Here is how I do it.
Here’s how my law enforcement agency holds the crypto.
There are a lot of international partners in the coalition which makes it even stronger.
So it’s been a fantastic success and I’m really, really proud of The Crypto Coalition.
[00:23:38] Bob: Okay.
So let’s get to the punchline here.
I know there is something we can do."
What should that person do next?
And the Secret Service is located near you.
That might be the way to do it.
It turns out Erin’s success is being used against her by the criminals.
[00:25:37] Bob: Oh God, of course.
[00:25:38] Erin West: Yeah.
So we’re working on that.
Criminals are working faster and faster so the rest of us have to act fast too.
So gosh, I feel like, as always, there are so many parts to this issue.
[00:28:04] Bob: Erin West, thank you very much for being here today.
[00:28:07] Erin West: Thank you.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
