I saw the guy, the fellow approach.
And I rolled down, and I said, uh, “She’s the one.”
[00:00:31] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
A cash handoff is the only way to avoid bank employees' suspicion, they’re told.
So they withdraw all their savings, hundreds of thousands of dollars.
They were carefully following instructions they’ve been told will save their money from the criminals.
[00:02:02] Tom Clemens: Well they were very procedural.
We want to ensure you’re not being followed, that there’s not somebody on your tail."
But how would they know they had the right person?
And he would say, “Okay, verify the code.
Okay, give them the money.”
[00:03:37] Bob: So do you remember how it felt?
And again, they’ve spent time with her every day on the phone and made reports.
And everything she did was called in before, during, and after.
So it was all very controlled, like it was all being monitored.
And anyway, yeah, the guy, I saw the guy, the fellow approach.
And I rolled down, and I said, uh, “She’s the one.”
[00:04:22] Bob: This same ritual is repeated several times.
[00:04:26] Dianne Clemens: The locations were varied in town.
It was within our community.
Some were nicely dressed; some were very casually dressed.
They were men and women.
They were, they were young and old.
We probably had about 6 or 7 different people.
[00:05:29] Bob: Even after the handoffs, Marcus carefully orchestrates what Tom and Dianne do next.
[00:05:35] Dianne Clemens: “Leave the parking lot.
I want to confirm that you got home safely.”
We’ve got it, we’ve got the money.
The money will be into your account tomorrow."
[00:05:58] Bob: The money will be in your account tomorrow.
You have done a lot of good work.
This will soon come to an end."
[00:06:50] Bob: This will soon come to an end.
That’s a relief to the couple who have a long road ahead dealing with Dianne’s illness.
But something seems strange.
I’m fine."
He’s like, “Nope, we’re sending this money.
I just can’t send it right now.”
Because they’ve never had a cash flow issue before.
And my dad was, said, “Well oh no, it’s, it’s fine.”
He’s like, “it’s fine.
But suddenly, something goes wrong.
And he said, “Well I will check into this.”
[00:08:54] Bob: Several more days pass before Neil calls back with an explanation.
But it doesn’t sit well with Dianne.
Neil says…
[00:09:04] Dianne Clemens: “Marcus has been transferred.”
And I said, “Well that is just, Marcus would never do that to me.
Marcus would never leave me high and dry with this.”
Tom, beside me, reacted to that.
Neil stops responding to their calls, doubt starts to creep in.
And only a few days later the truth becomes obvious.
there is no bank insider, no more secure checking account.
Virtually all of their savings was stolen by criminals.
[00:10:37] Bob: So how much cash are we talking about?
[00:10:39] Dianne Clemens: $600,000.
[00:10:40] Bob: In cash.
[00:10:41] Dianne Clemens: Yes.
It took 87 days, Bob, it was 87 days that was the process.
It was on February 2nd, that we realized this was absolutely a scam.
[00:11:26] Erika Clemens: So it was about mid-February, February 16th, actually.
And I just burst into tears ‘cause I was so not expecting that.
There’s nothing that we’ve ever not shared with each other.
So I was just really taken aback.
And she was reassuring me.
It’s not a big deal.
We can take care of it.”
I’m like “Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.”
And I said, “Okay.
What’s going on?”
And they said, “Well, we have been scammed and we lost all our money.”
And it didn’t sink in at all for me.
And I was like, “Oh,” I said, “well, that’s okay.
We can, we can figure this out.”
Honestly, my parents didn’t even want me to be involved.
They were very, almost terse about the whole thing in terms of very minimalist conversation about it.
My mom was just so embarrassed, and so guilty, and so ashamed.
The embarrassment was the main thing, I think at that point for my parents to tell me.
I was very calm and reassuring, but again, I didn’t know the scope of this.
I’m sure that they can get their money back, you know.
It just cooled me off a little bit, and it also was so peaceful.
By the time the detective left, his car was completely covered in snow.
It was a winter wonderland.
It was gorgeous and serene, which was completely juxtapositioned against how I was feeling inside.
[00:14:36] Bob: They spend the next few days trying to assess the damage.
Tom and Dianne still aren’t able to tell the full story to their daughter.
And then we hit their budget and their income.
I think they wrote it on a piece of paper and gave it to him.
And she seemed so fragile.
I mean Mom has always been a very resilient individual.
And she props other people up.
I was there as they brought her up back to the floor from the post-op area.
Um, but again, that was a very temporary state coming out of surgery.
I’d say she was suicidal or close to it.
She kept saying, she’s like, “Maybe I just need to end my life.”
There’s just nothing…" and I feel like for my mom it wasn’t the money itself.
I think it was the emotional ramification.
I mean they already felt bad enough.
It’s just like, it’s like a broken heart syndrome thing.
Am I a bad daughter?
I feel like a bad daughter.
I feel like am I just completely insensitive?
How much time do we have?
She knew helping her mom meant understanding where her mom was coming from.
So it’s like these scammer in December knew my mom had cancer again.
I didn’t know, but these scammers sure did.
[00:21:22] Bob: Oh God, that sounds terrible.
You are just like our mother.
We, we see you in that same light.
We, we have you, we’ve got your back, Dianne.
We are going to protect your money; we’re going to keep your money safe.
It’s a place for her other child.
[00:22:44] Bob: Dealing with the loss means so much more than dealing with the theft.
She kept referring to it as a betrayal.
[00:23:18] Bob: Little by little, they start to work on next steps.
Like I didn’t know what their income was, and I didn’t know what their budget was.
Like I had to get into the nitty gritty to help them figure this out.
You know, and it was a lot of processing, a lot of grieving.
Um, I wanted to be very mindful that I was not judging them.
The police couldn’t do anything, the FTC, the FBI, no one could do anything.
[00:25:09] Erika Clemens: I can say now that my mom’s back.
[00:26:01] Erika Clemens: My dad took Soren to go sled at the sledding hill in town.
He absolutely loved it.
It turns out ironically, you know, being from San Diego, he’s a complete snow baby.
And I’ve never seen him respond this way at the beach.
He loves the snow.
Doesn’t complain about the cold or, you know, pulling that sled up the hill or anything.
I asked if Erika was visiting during the conversation, and she said, no.
[00:27:09] Erika Clemens: No, I’m actually, I’m back in San Diego still.
My mom is getting weekly chemo infusions, and my dad taught Soren to ride a bike.
And now Soren loves to ride the bike.
So now he and my dad are biking all over.
So they’re having a great time.
I, honestly, Soren being there is the best medicine for both of them.
I think she’s having the time of her life now.
[00:28:50] Bob: Of course, it’s not easy.
The criminals who stole their life savings knew what they were doing.
[00:29:18] Dianne Clemens: That’s exactly right.
Um, but I didn’t because a question mark was, had been placed in my head.
[00:29:31] Bob: In fact, the criminals turn the bank into the enemy, Tom said.
And I can remember one specific day when she was really questioning what we were doing.
Take good care of Tom.
You don’t need to ever cancel an appointment with us because of a medical appointment.
You just, you know, whatever you have to do.
You have enough money to cover your medical appointments right now.
This all costs lots of money.
This is so difficult."
That’s how they talked to me.
They became my friend.
The contrast between them and the banks, was stark.
[00:31:45] Bob: Erika has advice to offer financial institutions.
This is a scam.
[00:32:23] Erika Clemens: Are you working with someone in fraud detection right now?
And also coming up from a place where they’re the victim, not the perpetrator.
And that goes for any field, you know.
So, and the bank is no different.
That’s what I think would have to change.
[00:33:26] Bob: Erika is onto something.
The program is now being deployed by retailers too, to train cashiers to spot gift card payment fraud.
The program is free.
One unhappy surprise Tom and Dianne say they’ve lost some friends recently.
They have just kind of left us because I know they’re uncomfortable with this.
[00:34:33] Bob: You’ve lost friends over this?
[00:34:36] Dianne Clemens: Yes.
[00:34:38] Bob: Wow.
[00:34:39] Dianne Clemens: People don’t know how to deal with difficult subjects.
And money is a big one.
I thought cancer was a big one.
But money is even a bigger one.
But we’ll be okay.
But just stand by us.
We never heard from a lot of those people.
Never heard a word.
But I really believe they just are inept in what to say.
[00:35:37] Bob: So what could friends say that would be more helpful?
[00:37:14] Dianne Clemens: You have a choice, and you have to pull it together.
You know, you just have to go put one foot forward.
The best thing we did is to talk, start talking about it.
Our daughter encouraged us to not be secret about it.
And if you have been scammed, you oughta talk to people about it.
If you think you’re being scammed, you probably are.
And so we thought we were handling it correctly.
And the only way I could let go of their control was to talk about it.
He was working on stuff deep down, and he just wasn’t verbal about it.
I can finally look in the mirror and shave without internally just screaming at myself the whole time."
So he’s like, “So I guess maybe I’m, I’m getting there.
I’m a little better.”
I think just being there.
Just know that you’re there to support.
I think that would be helpful.
[00:39:27] Bob: Healing is, of course, a process.
Well, we don’t, you know, we don’t have that in our case.
But what we have is like the here and now.
We have the time we have right now.
We have the present.
And so we are riding this wave of ambiguity.
My mom exercises most days of the week.
And my mom wants to live.
And we talk about life and death issues, and that can be hard for people.
My mom says, “I’m not ready to die yet.
[00:41:01] Bob: So where are things today?
[00:41:05] Dianne Clemens: Were alive, we’re doing just fine.
And suddenly we’re unable to pay for the contractor to do the work with it all.
It’s still there.
Some storms come into your life to flush the path.”
And I like that, and that sustains me.
So I am thinking that our path needed to be cleared.
It was a helluva way to go through the process.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Tom and Dianne are left to pick up the pieces with the help of friends and family.
