[00:01:35] I felt like I had been thrust into the deepest, darkest, blackest pit.
[00:01:57] They pretty much were telling me my mother left me and my father and my brothers.
Um, she took the money and ran off.
[00:02:15] This is one of the greatest White House breaches in history.
We basically emptied our piggy bank.
[00:02:41] Hes a total actor, thats what I would have to say.
He could play the part like a genius.
He knew what to say and how to say it.
[00:02:53] It was almost like cultish.
I was like somebody had gotten into her brain.
[00:02:58] She changed her voice at any given time.
It was very impressive.
[00:03:31] He saw himself as being bullet-proof.
Nobody was going to catch him.
That is a very disgusting thing, but unfortunately, it’s not uncommon.
[00:03:53] She says to me, you know, but you’re like quote-unquote leading him.
I said, okay.
She would say, you have a negativity about you.
Nobody can help you get rid of the negativity.
I said, well okay.
She seemed to be honest.
She had a very nice way about her.
It’s not right what they’ve done.
It was a real kick in the stomach after we realized what was going on.
I really trusted him.
[00:04:46] I think this is my, what I truly believe.
Seventy-five percent of this has been uncovered.
There’s still another 25% out there that I just don’t know.
[00:06:28] Amy Nofziger: Hi, everyone.
Thanks for having me.
This was really great to be here on the 100th episode.
And Annalea Embree, our producer, is here to help.
So Annalea, play the first near miss audio clip kindly.
[00:06:42] The Grandparent Scam story reported this podcast was almost identical to my situation.
It was helpful and reassuring to learn more about the history and ways to combat such calls.
I cant believe I stayed on the line as long as I did before challenging the caller.
My love for my grandson overrode my intellect.
Im relieved someone is keeping us aware thank you.
[00:07:05] Bob: Im so glad that this person actually didnt send money to the criminal.
Can you wire me some money to help me get out of trouble?
But Amy, what did this person do right?
[00:07:39] Amy Nofziger: Bottom line, this is not how these emergency situations work, right.
If youre grandchilds in the hospital, you know you will know through the normal mechanisms.
Our jails do not take payment for bond in prepaid gift cards.
I need your help.
[00:08:30] Amy Nofziger Well, absolutely.
We also see this scam increase during spring break because its just a perfect current event.
Grandma, I was on spring break.
I went with my friends.
yo dont tell her.
[00:09:50] Amy Nofziger: Absolutely.
[00:10:07] My mother just lost her husband of over 30 years.
Shes very lonely and has a touch of dementia.
Recently she started telling me about this old friend of hers who’d reached out to her.
She was so happy about it.
At first, I thought she was just confused or making it up.
It turns out it was a scammer.
It broke my heart to have to explain it to her.
Fortunately, she just kept telling him to come over to see her and never gave him any money.
Its so sad that people will do this and prey on sad, lonely people.
I mean thats a pretty significant loss.
And as her daughter said, it is sad.
To them its a job, right, to them its a job.
Sometimes these victims believe the criminal more than they believe their own families, right?
[00:12:21] Amy Nofziger: Oh, absolutely.
And thats what these criminals do.
Um, yeah, and they seemed apprehensive.
Well I told you they were going to do that because they dont want you to be happy.
They want you this, they want you that.
[00:13:24] Nofziger: Oh absolutely.
Play the next audio file for us yo because this is one of the typical patterns we see.
[00:14:49] Bob: So Prince Harry is probably not going to have a go at friend you.
[00:15:03] Amy Nofziger: I mean, bottom line, it comes down to credibility, right.
I mean we respect our men and women in uniform.
We admire them, we appreciate them.
And the people will say, yes, how did you know?
You know, theyre overseas, theyre not always connected to you.
Oh, their wi-fis spotty, or oh, they need food, or oh, they need this.
You know, its a great kind of imposter thing to do to pretend youre from the military.
But just know its not.
They have enough people to talk about, right.
Do not accept that friend request.
Do not let that person into your social media profile.
[00:16:43] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely.
And its almost like theres double victimization here.
So, I think thats great.
Do you want to friend request me?
Report, right, and its just like, no, I dont want to friend request you.
You dont need, I mean you might need friends.
I dont need friends from people I dont know, right.
I am perfectly fine not connecting with you.
[00:18:01] Bob: And check in with your friends, thats what friendship is for.
I think thats just great.
Look out for each other there.
So I answered the phone, pressed one, and was connected to Rashad.
I couldnt quite make out the reply, but he sounded very confused then disconnected.
[00:18:51] Amy Nofziger: Hmmm, I love it, I love it.
[00:19:09] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, it is funny.
Um, you know, so what David had here was a very creative refusal script, right.
Send me something in the mail.
Ive even heard, Oh my daughter, you know, works for my local police department.
You know, why dont you call her and ask her this question.
Let it go to voicemail.
Ring ring…
[00:21:08] Amy Nofziger: Hello?
What, how many calendars can I put you down for?
[00:21:51] Bob: Wow, I couldnt get through at all.
You pay that phone bill.
Not the person calling you.
If you want to leave me something, thats great.
[00:22:47] Bob: Again, I love the idea of, of a refusal script.
[00:23:16] I received one of these calls two or three years ago.
They said I had broken tax laws and could be arrested.
They said I owed some unspecified amount of taxes; however, heres what they didnt know.
I retired from the IRS after almost 40 years working for that agency.
I called their bluff, and they threatened to have an agent at my door in 15 minutes.
I know the real IRS would be hard pressed to get someone at my door in 15 days.
The IRS would never initiate contact in this manner.
So if someone says theyre with the Social Security Administration or the IRS, you know we listen.
We listen to them.
I say that the same time about the IRS, you know making these calls.
Never, ever, ever, ever.
And I cant reiterate that enough.
Um, they will never ask payment in those ways.
Thats a number one red flag.
[00:25:36] Bob: So, are you saying theyre never ask for payment that way?
[00:25:39] Amy Nofziger: They will, yeah, exactly, right.
Let me say it one more time, Bob.
[00:25:42] Bob: I just want to be clear, yeah.
[00:25:44] Amy Nofziger: I want everyone to repeat after me.
We actually, thats one thing we do when we go um, talk to people.
Because if we can just stop that, we can stop a lot of these scams.
I think thats great.
[00:26:11] Amy Nofziger: There you go.
It puts you; it knocks your defenses down sometimes, right?
What did I do?
They do not call you unsolicited over the phone.
It will always come in the mail.
So I love a good happy ending, dont you?
[00:27:20] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely.
So how do they get in touch with you?
[00:27:32] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely.
And uh theres very few places where people answer the phone so quickly.
[00:28:42] Amy Nofziger: Yep.
[00:28:43] Bob: Right?
[00:28:44] Amy Nofziger: Yep, yep.
This is not your fault.
Maybe you didnt know the red flags.
Well help you figure them out for the next time.
But its not your fault you fell in love.
Its not your fault you loved your grandchild.
Its not your fault you thought you were in trouble with the IRS.
Its the criminals fault, right, you should not be blamed for this crime.
It has nothing to do with your intelligence.
And Ive heard from people that say, oh well, you know, I graduated from Harvard.
This will never happen to me.
[00:30:37] Bob: Theres also this social cost to it, right.
You know, if people would just not fall for these scams, then there would be no scams.
But thats just an excuse for society to not look at the problem, I think, dont you?
But you know, we can stop these scams.
We can stop them at every level.
We can stop them with prevention.
There’s hardly a warning sign.
How are we letting that happen?
But again, were not blaming them, were blaming the victim.
Also, the criminals, you know, this is a job to them.
So theres so many levels that we, in society, can have impact on.
Um, but the least of them is blaming the victim.
So thats not going to change anything.
Together were going to figure out a way to move forward and get this reported.
Empathy, kindness, communication; the moneys gone.
Right, the money is gone, its gone, its gone.
So lets find a path forward.
But if we say, well why didnt you tell me?
Why did you pick up the phone?
Why did you do that?
Right, thats not going to lead to anything positive, and these people need to recover.
Sometimes I hear from victims, its not the financial recovery thats so devastating, its the emotional recovery.
Theyve lost trust in themselves, theyve lost trust in the system, theyve lost trust in their family.
So again, its just, just say, Im so sorry this happened to you.
[00:33:50] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, youre absolutely right.
I, I am just so stupid.
Im just such an idiot, and I just said, I need you to stop because youre not.
Dont give them that power, right.
Im sure its very hard.
So I really, I really appreciate what they do, and I know a lot of people do.
[00:34:57] Amy Nofziger: Well I appreciate you saying that.
[00:35:18] Bob: Amy Nofziger from AARPs Fraud Watch online grid.
Thank you very much for being here today, and thank you for helping us celebrate the 100th episode.
[00:35:24] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, happy 100th episode.
I dont know, do we say anniversary, birthday?
[00:35:31] Bob: What song do we sing?
Well come up with a song.
[00:35:33] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, there we go.
[00:35:35] Bob: There is a lot of people to thank at a time like this.
Thanks to all the guests who have taken such big risks to step forward and tell their stories.
They really are heroes.
Some of our stories are hard to hear, but they are really important stories to tell.
They also discuss why its so important to change the narrative of victim blaming.
