Todaythere are millions of scams and millions of us are falling for them.
We’ll pull back the curtain on how scammers operate and how you canprotect yourself.
[00:00:24] This call center scam works.
These people have figured out away to make a lot of money off of this.
[00:00:31] I don’t think anyone realized to the degree that he wasliving a double life.
I never had a clue he was living a double life.
[00:00:54] I was emotionally vulnerable.
Did I remove from their grocery bill?
[00:01:28] Frank Abagnale: Pleasure to be here.
He knows more about scams and fraud than almost anyoneon the planet.
Frank, how did you first get started?
[00:02:00] Frank Abagnale: You know, that was self-taught, I think.
Rather than choose, I ran out of the courtroom and becamea runaway.
I was actually bornin April of 1948.
So, I finagled to get a uniform.
I posed as an airline pilot for a coupleof years.
I realized I could fly around on the planes for free.
I stayed in thehotels for free.
[00:03:24] HOST: So, let me stop you.
So, the movie is pretty true toyour story, or absolutely true.
[00:03:28] Frank Abagnale: Yes.
And then I, you know I impersonated a doctor in a Georgia hospital for awhile.
I passed the Bar in Louisiana and practice law there.
I, likeall criminals, sooner or later you get caught.
I was arrested at 21 by theFrench police in Southern France, charged with forgery.
I spent time in theFrench prisons.
[00:04:17] HOST: In New York?
[00:04:18] Frank Abagnale: In Atlanta.
[00:04:19] HOST: In Atlanta, right.
I agreed andwas released, and I’ve been working with the FBI now for 41 years.
[00:04:50] Frank Abagnale: Right.
[00:05:11] Frank Abagnale: It was a very, very lonely life.
It was a very lonely life.
You know I did it ata very young age.
I truly believe that people who say,well you were brilliant.
You were a genius, that’s not the case.
I was just 16years old.
I truly believe I got away with the things I got away with because Iwas an adolescent.
I had no fear of being caught.
I had no fear ofconsequences.
If they say this,I’ll do this.
If they do this, I’ll do that.
I just went in and did it.
It’s not going to happen.
Were you expecting that at all?
I just saw it as I saw a lot of things at a young age, asopportunities.
I was truly an opportunist and I saw that as an opportunity toget out of prison.
But along the way, I met my wife.
I had children, and Ithink that’s what really changed my life.
Those are the things that really changed my life.
I’d be lying if Isaid prison rehabilitated me and I came out a changed man.
That was not thecase.
So, some of our scams will indeed havepeople that actually turned the tables to some extent.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:08:36] Richard: I am 88 years old, and still getting around.
I’vebeen a journalist all my life since the age of 15.
I worked for TimeIncorporated, worked for Life Magazine for many years with the founding editorof People Magazine.
[00:09:02] Richard: First thing I heard was, “Hi Grandpa.”
AndI said, “Who’s this?”
I mean it was not a voice I recognized.
Well hesaid, “Don’t you recognize my voice?
It’s Kenny.”
And he said, (whichis indeed my grandson), “I’m in Chicago.”
I thought, that’s a strange thingfor my grandson."
[00:09:45] HOST: And is Kenny someone who might just call you out of theblue?
It sounds like not on your landline anyway.
[00:09:51] Richard: Not really.
I mean I talked to his mother, mydaughter.
Then he said, “Heres whathappened.
Emily (that’s his sister) and I went to a White Sox game, baseballgame last night.
And we were on our way back to our hotel when our cab waspulled over by the police.
They found marijuana in the trunk and arrested us.I’m at the police station now with the lawyer.”
[00:10:55] Richard: And my first question, perhaps a rhetoricalquestion, were you carrying drugs yourself?
[00:11:21] Richard: That, of course, was my first question.
I said,“If you weren’t carrying it, why were you arrested?”
And this iswhere they really get clever.
[00:12:13] HOST: It didn’t matter.
[00:12:20] HOST: Yeah.
So, he said we’re on our way back to her hotel.Huh?
And then went to a White Sox game.
Now her hotel was on the North Side ofChicago.
[00:13:09] HOST: (laugh) So you’re using some geographical awareness ofChicago.
[00:13:33] HOST: I’m starting to feel like they called the wrong guy.
And he really was in trouble?
I mean they still haveRichard asking questions.
[00:14:12] Richard: The amazing thing is the information that he hadabout me.
I said, “You should talk to oneof the family in Chicago, not me.
There’s not much I can do from here.
“Then at that point I said, “This sounds kind of fishy to me.”
And I have to say I had this momentarytwinge.
What he learned is the unfortunatetruth behind all of this.
[00:16:32] Richard: I told him what I’d been through and he said thatit’s typical.
Within a few hours I heard backfrom two members of my extended family.
[00:18:34] HOST: When did you talk to Kenny after all this?
And did youconnect with him eventually?
And hehas, he’s absolutely amazed at what happened.
[00:18:55] HOST: I’m glad Kenny’s staying out of trouble.
[00:18:57] Richard: (chuckle) Hes graduated from college and has a goodjob.
[00:19:06] Richard: Exactly.
It’s not always just an individual.
They gave him the name, he was driving this vehicle,but he was DWI.
[00:20:18] HOST: So, in this case they don’t even have to talk to thegrandson.
The girlfriend is notin custody, but your grandson is.
He has asked us not to call his parents, buthe has asked us to call you.
[00:20:37] HOST: So, they’ve got all these, all these details.
So, then ofcourse the grandparent is immediately, well what do I have to do?
The bail is $200 or whatever they say the bail is.
So they’ve gotten much moresophisticated.
No, we donthave your grandson in custody, and sir, that’s a scam.
It’s perpetrated all thetime, just ignore that call and don’t fall for that.
I think that’s the biggestmistake we make.
We listen to the conversation and then we don’t verify theinformation that was given to us.
We don’t check it out.
I’ll just come down to the police department right now and I’ll post themoney.
Those are the kind of things where then you start to get a littlebit suspicious.
So, my response would have been, well can I just come down andpost that bail right now?
I mean I’m sure it has, but…
[00:22:55] Frank Abagnale: Exactly.
[00:23:01] Frank Abagnale: And they have for years, and there are alltypes of boiler rooms.
[00:23:03] HOST: Have you been in boiler rooms?
Have you seen…
[00:23:05] Frank Abagnale: I’ve seen them.
The Bureau has raided themover and over.
Sometimes they’re boiler rooms selling you investment scams.
[00:23:12] HOST: Are they in somebody’s house or like in an office park?
[00:23:14] Frank Abagnale: Somebody’s house.
Sometimes they’ve rentedoffice space and they operate out of office space.
Sometimes there’s been asmany as 30, 40, 50 people in the room.
Hedidn’t do anything to hurt me in any way except he deceived me.
All the things I gave him and allthe trips I took him on and they’re mad?
[00:24:55] HOST: That’s really interesting.
And did you ever have theopportunity or the experience of them speaking to some of these people later inlife?
It’s like, you know, it’s the same way in a relationship.
[00:25:41] HOST: We are joined now by Jen Beam.
She is with the FraudWatch web connection.
She manages the Fraud Watch data pipe Facebook page.
Jen, thanksfor joining us.
[00:25:49] Jen Beam: Happy to be here.
Tell us about some of the scams that are happening there.
I’d better log back in.
Andit’s a fake page and really what it is is scammers grabbing your password andyour login information.
So sometimes they’ll make it seem just close enough tosomething youve heard of.
You know just maybe a LinkedIn but still different,a friend, sort of like a generic name.
So it can vary.
For us, we see allkinds.
Slow down, press that profile, take a look around.
[00:27:41] HOST: Alright, Jen.
Thanks a ton for your great informationand we’ll look forward to having you back again sometime.
[00:27:46] Jen Beam: Thank you, so much.
The main thing is grandparents, stop and verify.
[00:28:06] Frank Abagnale: Absolutely.
[00:28:11] HOST: Alright.
Thanks for being here.
[00:28:17] Frank Abagnale: Thank you for having me.
Special thanks to our producers, JulieGetz and Brook Ellis.
Our audio guru and engineer, Julio Gonzales, and ofcourse, my cohost, Frank Abagnale.
For The Perfect Scam, I’m Will Johnson.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
Richard is a retired journalist who receives a call from someone claiming to be hisgrandsonin jail.
By asking the right questions and not giving in, Richard discovers the man is a con artist.
