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[00:00:00] Michelle: This week on The Perfect Scam.
I’m not wrong.
I did nothing wrong.
You know, it’s, I don’t need to be punished for this.
it’s crucial that you be punished.
[00:00:23] Michelle: Welcome back to AARP’s The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Michelle Kosinski.
Well we have an unusual one for you this week.
There are few relationships more private, more sacred than that between a person and their doctor.
Welcome back, Frank.
[00:01:26] Frank Abagnale: Hi, Michelle.
Glad to be back with you today.
It is not that difficult to do.
He went to work for the company and said he was an engineer and had an engineering degree.
But again, this is part of the con.
I’m conning you into believing I am that doctor.
[00:03:29] Michelle: Right.
[00:03:30] Frank Abagnale: you could’t do that.
In this world we live in today, things have to be checked out.
How long was that?
How, how long were you able to pull this off?
[00:03:47] Frank Abagnale: That was just for a few weeks.
That was more of a challenge to myself to see if I could get away with it.
I moved into an apartment complex in Atlanta, and on the utility, it asked my occupation.
I said, “Yes.”
“Why throw in of doctor are you?”
So, “I’m a medical doctor.”
Well what punch in of medical doctor?"
I’m not licensed to practice medicine in the state of Georgia."
But no one checked out to see if I had a California license.
No one checked me out.
They all knew me.
[00:06:10] Michelle: Ohhh.
I have to tell you this story.
I would have never uh, taken it that far.
[00:06:33] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:06:39] Frank Abagnale: Right.
[00:06:39] Michelle: That’s just… that’s equally incredible.
All right, well we love your stories.
Thanks so much, Frank.
[00:06:46] Frank Abagnale: Thank you.
So she wanted to keep up with her progress and needed to find someone new.
So I googled a couple of therapists near me.
I had interviewed with several.
Kathy was just looking for someone with good credentials, and Dr. Redman seemed to fit the bill.
[00:09:12] Michelle: It seemed like a thorough and caring approach.
His reviews online were great, all four and five stars out of five, so Kathy went ahead.
Scott Redman became her psychologist.
[00:09:23] Kathy Baran: He came across really good.
You know, I felt very comfortable with him.
I felt at ease.
[00:09:33] Michelle: Got it.
[00:09:34] Kathy Baran: You know, it was, everything seemed to be okay with it.
[00:09:37] Michelle: What was your first impression of him?
Was he, did he seem like a, a nice man?
Did he seem like he was…
[00:09:43] Kathy Baran: Oh yeah.
[00:09:44] Michelle: …patient, like what were your first thoughts of him?
[00:09:48] Kathy Baran: Um, he seemed like he was patient.
He seemed very nice.
He seemed very personable.
I needed to have a voice.
[00:10:16] Michelle: Well, good for you.
[00:10:18] Kathy Baran: So, but, but yeah, he, he seemed very open-minded.
That, nothing scared him off, you know.
[00:10:58] Kathy Baran: A lot of it is trust.
You have to trust.
You have to trust.
And, you know, sometimes I do need a nudge.
[00:11:30] Kathy Baran: Of course, of course he was.
[00:11:52] Michelle: Right, right.
So Kathy pours her heart and mind out to Dr. Redman.
She also spends a lot of money.
Kathy’s okay with it, although there are a few things about Dr. Redman that bother her.
But therapy isn’t supposed to be comfortable.
If it’s comfortable, then you’re gonna wanna find someone new.
Kathy deeply wanted to make progress.
[00:13:45] Michelle: Got it.
Well I was there to talk things out no matter how uncomfortable they were.
[00:13:56] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:14:00] Michelle: Exactly.
That’s tough, ‘cause it puts you in a very vulnerable situation.
[00:14:07] Kathy Baran: Yes.
[00:14:18] Michelle: Got it.
And that happened a time or two or did it happen pretty often?
Whenever that subject was, was discussed, it, it just made it sick and dirty.
[00:14:34] Michelle: Got it.
[00:14:39] Michelle: Got it.
[00:14:46] Kathy Baran: Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:48] Michelle: But Kathy’s a regular patient now.
In fact, when her friend is looking for a therapist, Kathy gives her Dr. Redman’s information.
And she goes, “Did you even google him?”
And then it, it went on.
That’s deception, deception, fraud, those types of things.
He had no medical degree.
He had no college degree.
He had first gotten an actual license in therapy, but with fake credentials.
This was back in 2010.
Within two years though, he had moved to Illinois and was treating Kathy and other patients.
And now reading about this online, Kathy was in disbelief.
This was the man who had essentially been pretending to treat her childhood trauma.
[00:17:55] Kathy Baran: I’m so embarrassed, I’m so embarrassed.
And then I finally, you know what, I am mad.
And I said, “Why don’t you tell me what’s going on.”
And he goes, “I don’t understand.”
What, what are you?
I go, “Do me a favor.
And he, he was just in utter shock.
He was just like, oh no, like he didn’t know this had resurfaced.
I want every penny I paid you back.”
Everything was still handwritten notes.
And he said, “I can’t give that to you.”
I go, “What do you mean?
That’s, that’s my life in, that are on those pages.
You’re going to have to call the police to remove me.
I’m not leaving.”
And he would say, I would become the crazy woman, like who was she?
[00:19:45] Kathy Baran: … shaking in my boots.
I said, “Buddy that’s on you.”
I go, “I, there is no, what youre doing is undignified.
You’re, youre, you’re robbing me.
You’re stealing from me.
You are doing bad things.
I see children come on out of, out of your office.”
Why are you doing this?"
And he said, “Well, ‘cause I have to, I have to feed my family.”
I go, “No, that’s not an excuse.
He said, “Look, I don’t have any money here.”
And he goes, “it’s possible for you to’t have it.”
And I go, “I need my file.”
And at this point he goes, “Well I have people coming in.”
[00:21:24] Michelle: Okay.
[00:21:24] Kathy Baran: I guess pretty much just to keep track of how my progress looked.
You know, last week you were like this.
How are you this week?
[00:21:48] Kathy Baran: Not even for a while, just for a second.
Um, he just said, “Well those are my diplomas.”
And I said, “Well no, there’s no record of you going to that university.”
And he said, “Oh.”
He goes, “But, but I did help you, right?
That’s what, that’s what my job is, to help people.”
I go, “I could talk to a stranger on the phone and get help.
I could talk to a friend and get help.
I go, “You’re dealing with people’s lives.”
[00:22:32] Michelle: Was he stunned that you had figured him out?
[00:22:35] Kathy Baran: He was stunned.
I go, “I’m not leaving without my records.”
And she found a strength and a resolve that she was surprised she had.
She was only getting angrier, more disgusted with every lame excuse this dime store doctor produced.
[00:23:06] Kathy Baran: “I have people coming.”
I said, “I don’t care.”
Better, better that they do come and find, you know, out who you are.
So eventually he quickly gave my file and um, he did keep those people there.
He didn’t ask them to leave.
He didnt close up shop.
[00:23:26] Kathy Baran: Of course he did.
[00:23:28] Michelle: Oh gosh.
[00:23:28] Kathy Baran: Yeah.
You know, thinking like I wasn’t going to do anything.
And I, it’s just I hit that point where I was just mad.
I just didn’t want to be walked over anymore.
This is not wrong.
I did not, nothing wrong.
[00:24:00] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:24:05] Michelle: Kathy was not going to just let this go.
This guy had clearly violated her trust and the law.
Kathy took her file and walked straight to the police department two blocks away.
This had to be the most interesting report the cops there had heard in a while.
[00:24:30] Michelle: They listened to my story, actually asked me if I had time.
I said I have all the time in the world.
Uh, they went over to the office.
They, they arrested him.
Now they knew why.
Kathy feels the loss much deeper though than all the money she paid for fake treatment.
I still, to this day, cannot have a healthy relationship.
[00:26:12] Michelle: I’m really amazed your doctor didn’t think anything was weird at all.
[00:26:17] Kathy Baran: No, not, not, not at all.
You know I, I joked around about it later on when I was able to joke around.
I’m, I’m not some naive person walking off the street.
I knew the, I knew the process.
[00:26:53] Michelle: Exactly.
[00:26:54] Kathy Baran: My doctor, you know, my doctor, my former therapist.
And everyone’s like, yeah, if you’re comfortable, we’re comfortable with it.
Will I get it right now?
I can’t right now.
I just, I just really can’t.
Everything is still so raw.
I just hurts so badly.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Michelle Kosinski.
She searches online and reads patient reviews before settling on Dr. Scott C. Redman.
Over the next 2 1/2 years, Dr. Redman treats Kathy.
Then, one day, Kathy finds out that her doctor isnt who he claims to be.
In fact, hes a professional con man whos impersonated psychologists for a decade.
AARPs Fraud Watch internet can help you spot and avoid scams.
