I got really scared.
I mean they were relentless.
[00:00:18] Michelle: Welcome back to AARP’s The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Michelle Kosinski.
But this woman’s story is extra, more than that.
But first, let’s give a big welcome back to Fraud Expert extraordinaire, Frank Abagnale.
[00:01:03] Frank Abagnale: Hi, Michelle, glad to be back with you today.
And that affected nearly half the population of the entire United States.
Frank, walk us through the theory on this.
That breach occurred a few years ago but that information is now with the Chinese government.
[00:02:30] Michelle: Right, yeah.
[00:02:31] Frank Abagnale: You know, 80 million Americans signed up for that.
What are they doing with the information of, as many Americans as they can get?
[00:03:14] Frank Abagnale: Well some of it is, of course, the government in China.
Some of it is like gangs in Russia, but the Russian government looks the other way.
[00:04:09] Michelle: Absolutely.
Okay, thanks, Frank.
[00:04:12] Michelle: So to our story.
I mean multiple attacks every single day, and that’s just the White House.
So let’s go back to late 2017.
According to US officials these Chinese military hackers penetrated Equifax’s enormous database.
It was December, right in the flurry of the holiday season.
[00:05:44] Marni Ribnick: I was just one of the unlucky ones.
[00:06:01] Marni Ribnick: Yeah, it is really fun.
[00:06:03] Michelle: And she had no idea that any of her information was stolen from Equifax.
They were both thanking me for my program, but they needed some more information.
[00:06:43] Michelle: And that’s a problem now, right?
So this was the first warning sign.
[00:07:26] Marni Ribnick: Exactly.
I know, it was nuts.
[00:07:44] Michelle: Oh my gosh.
[00:07:46] Marni Ribnick: And I didn’t apply for anything.
So that kind of freaked me out right there.
[00:07:57] Michelle: And when you saw 22 accounts, this is like for 22 credit cards?
[00:08:02] Marni Ribnick: Yes, yeah.
[00:08:03] Michelle: What was your reaction to that?
[00:08:17] Michelle: Yeah.
And like, you just know it’s going to waste a lot of your time.
[00:08:38] Marni Ribnick: It was horrendous.
[00:08:40] Michelle: So you go to the cops in your town.
[00:08:43] Marni Ribnick: Yes, I did, and I filed a police report.
[00:09:32] Michelle: Well that was smart.
And the fact that you froze your credit, that’s a good idea.
[00:09:37] Marni Ribnick: Yes, but except for somebody unfroze it.
[00:09:40] Michelle: Whoa, so Marni did the right thing.
The people that are doing this can get past it by answering some simple questions.
[00:11:10] Michelle: That is unbelievable.
[00:11:12] Marni Ribnick: Yeah.
[00:11:15] Michelle: What did you think?
I’m like, okay, this has to be shipped somewhere.
Where is this going?
We could find people that way, but it was a lot more difficult than that.
[00:11:55] Michelle: And where, do you know where they were buying this stuff from?
Was it all online purchases or were they actually going into stores?
[00:12:03] Marni Ribnick: Yeah, it was both.
[00:12:21] Marni Ribnick: What they did was they moved me to Chicago.
[00:12:46] Michelle: That is unbelievable.
[00:12:49] Marni Ribnick: I know it, I know it.
[00:13:27] Michele: Did you find sympathetic ears on the other end of any of these conversations?
Like did they understand that you were the victim of a crime?
[00:13:36] Marni Ribnick: I mean yes and no.
[00:14:09] Marni Ribnick: Um-hmm.
[00:14:10] Michelle: It is like a constant daily uphill battle to reclaim her own identity.
But Marni does it.
This is just head-slappingly intense.
They’re so focused on stealing Marni’s good credit, they just will not give up.
[00:14:49] Michelle: Unbelievable.
[00:14:53] Marni Ribnick: Yeah.
[00:14:54] Michelle: What did you think when you, when you saw that?
[00:14:58] Marni Ribnick: I got really scared.
[00:15:15] Michelle: It’s like they were obsessed with you.
[00:15:17] Marni Ribnick: Exactly.
Somebody did say that to me actually.
[00:15:20] Michelle: You must have just felt like, why me?
[00:15:23] Marni Ribnick: Exactly.
It’s like an all-consuming victimization from afar.
These criminals impersonated Marni and unfroze her credit at least three times.
[00:16:11] Marni Ribnick: Yeah, exactly.
The pros and cons of paying your bills on time, I guess.
The woman she worked with there became like a good friend and guardian angel.
Someone to hold her hand at least over the phone.
They managed to find out about that and even targeted it.
[00:16:52] Marni Ribnick: Somebody who wasn’t me cancelled it two times.
[00:16:57] Michelle: How?
How were they able to do this to you?
[00:17:50] Michelle: This is just so frustrating to hear about.
You must have felt like there was just a black cloud following you around everywhere.
[00:17:58] Marni Ribnick: Absolutely, absolutely.
She’s just one person out there with good credit.
She even has recordings of one of the scammers impersonating her to gain control once again of her credit.
This is just beyond spooky.
The scammer even asks about the extent of Marni’s credit protection.
[00:19:02] (call) Okay, and that’s for what?
What all does that cover?
[00:19:07] Michelle: And then you might hear her make her moves.
[00:19:11] (call) Yeah, I want to uh cancel the membership.
[00:19:15] (call) Do you have any other questions or concerns?
[00:19:24] (call) Correct.
Can you update my email address?
[00:19:30] (call) Of course.
[00:19:42] (call) Is there anything else I can assist you with today, ma’am?
[00:19:58] Michelle: At this point, Marni isn’t even sure where to turn.
And that’s where all these cards were getting to sent to.
There’s, you know, it’s way bigger than what these people were doing.
And that was really frustrating.
[00:20:53] Marni Ribnick: Exactly.
[00:21:00] Marni Ribnick: Right.
[00:21:17] Marni Ribnick: Right.
[00:21:52] Michelle: That’s right.
The scammers kept going.
They opened up a cable TV account in Marni’s name.
They changed the address where her mortgage correspondence would be sent.
And she asked her a couple of more questions, and then Char asked who she was talking to?
And she said my name.
[00:22:59] Michelle: I actually have chills…
[00:23:01] Marni Ribnick: Totally.
[00:23:02] Michelle: …on my arms hearing that.
[00:23:04] Marni Ribnick: Yeah.
You must have just been like, again?
[00:23:21] Marni Ribnick: Hmm-hmm.
Yes, I just, a lot of tears, that’s for sure.
So…
[00:23:34] Marni Ribnick: Yeah.
It was, it was terrible.
So it was, it was a huge impact on my life.
[00:24:12] Michelle: Yeah.
It’s a lot, it’s a lot.
[00:24:32] Marni Ribnick: Exactly.
[00:24:33] Michelle: And then they opened some kind of crazy cable account in Chicago?
[00:25:08] Michelle: Great.
[00:25:09] Marni Ribnick: Somebody caught it, yeah.
[00:25:20] Michelle: Because youre a good person.
You’re the good girl.
You’re the good girl who pays her bills on time every month.
[00:25:27] Marni Ribnick: Thank you.
And this time, like snowflakes during a Minnesota blizzard, it sticks.
[00:26:48] Marni Ribnick: Correct.
[00:26:50] Michelle: Did the police attempt to help you?
Did they stay in touch or did they have any leads?
Was there ever any police follow-up?
[00:26:59] Marni Ribnick: Yes, they did.
And, and they’re just too busy to do it.
I mean it kind of dropped, but they did try.
[00:27:16] Michelle: Wow, so these people are probably still out there doing this.
[00:27:21] Marni Ribnick: Yes.
[00:28:03] Michelle: Got it.
[00:28:12] Michelle: Its almost like in every way, except physically, they became you.
[00:28:26] Marni Ribnick: Yes, exactly.
[00:29:00] Michelle: I’ve never heard of a case quite this extreme.
[00:29:08] Marni Ribnick: Yeah, no, they were shocked too that they were just vicious.
[00:29:13] Michelle: What would you say you’ve learned from this ordeal?
[00:30:11] Michelle: You’ve seen the real evolution of this stuff.
[00:31:19] Mark Lanterman: Yeah, you know, I could go on the Dark Web.
All I need is a name and an idea of what city you live in.
[00:32:24] Mark Lanterman: We’re becoming desensitized to uh, to data breaches.
You know, security and convenience really don’t go together.
And those cases are real, and they happen every single day.
It’s a lot easier than robbing a bank.
[00:33:49] Michelle: That’s very depressing, Mark.
I’m, I’m going to be up all night worried about this now.
[00:33:55] Mark Lanterman: Yeah, yeah, you, you and me both.
Every person out there should put a freeze on their credit.
[00:34:17] Michelle: Okay, well I never knew this.
So this is actually practical information for me as well.
I’m embarrassed to admit, I have never thought about doing this before.
I only think about taking action when I smell a problem.
[00:34:41] Michelle: This is all great advice.
In three words, freeze your credit.
Let’s check in again with Frank Abagnale about Marni Ribnick’s case of extreme identity theft.
You only defeat social engineering through education.
But you have to teach people that.
People, uh, you know, basically are honest, so they don’t have a deceptive mind.
The guy just forgot his number.
That’s not enough.
You have to understand how to do this.
So companies have to do a better job of educating their employees when it comes to social engineering.
[00:36:11] Michelle: Yeah, and you really wrote the book on that.
Thanks so much, Frank, for your insight as always.
[00:36:15] Frank Abagnale: Great, thank you, Michelle.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Michelle Kosinski.
She immediately takes action, freezing her credit and signing up for a credit monitoring service.
Marnis scammer has found a way to unfreeze her credit.
Marni takes additional action to protect her credit, but the scammer is just getting started.
AARPs Fraud Watch internet can help you spot and avoid scams.
