I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
It’s natural to look online for love and companionship these days.
But risk and danger even might be lurking behind every dating profile.
This week Grandmother Entangled in Money Mule Scam.
I’ll let host Michelle Kosinski take it from here.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:01:03] Michelle: Welcome back to AARP’s The Perfect Scam.
I’m Michelle Kosinski, and it is my absolute pleasure to be your new host.
I look forward to getting to know you and all those scams that are lurking out there.
And we’re finding some shocking ones.
With me, of course, is Frank Abagnale.
[00:01:45] Frank Abagnale: That’s great.
Nice to meet you and work with you, Michelle.
And how, for scammers, the hard work has been done for them.
People are already scared and they’re worried, and they want to get tested and all of that.
So, what are you starting to see come out of the woodwork, Frank?
[00:02:07] Frank Abagnale: Those are the exact things I’m starting to see.
So you oughta ignore offers online or in stores that claim to offer treatments for cures.
Uh, never provide your Medicare number to anyone but your own medical professionals.
And you always can call the AARP Fraud Watch web link Helpline at 877-908-3360 to report a scam.
There was no money to be made, it was just a malicious activity by those.
So I think we’re seeing all kinds of horrible things that we see when these things go on.
Uh, they’re using fear to play on.
So none of that surprises me.
This is a time to be a much smarter consumer, a much smarter individual.
[00:06:39] Michelle: Yeah, that is great advice.
[00:06:41] Frank Abagnale: Thank you, Michelle.
It started with something as simple and ubiquitous these days as, yes, online dating.
Now many, many people use online dating.
How many you ask?
So virtually all of us know someone for whom it all worked out just great.
Unfortunately, this is not that story.
This is about an incredibly intricate, yep, scam.
[00:07:52] Michelle: It all starts with a lovely woman we met named Annie.
[00:07:55] Annie: I’m supposed to go to Springfield and tell my story to the legislators.
[00:07:59] Michelle: Oh my gosh!
And I married a man who had four years of sobriety in AA.
[00:10:29] Michelle: I’m so sorry to hear that.
But those last two years just took all of that away.
He tells me how much he loves me, but the dementia makes him a different person.
Medical professionals and nurses tell you, but you know thats the disease.
And I was lonely, and I wanted so much to just have some adult communication.
I was looking for companionship on a distance level.
Does that make sense?
[00:12:14] Michelle: So Annie decides to try the popular website Plenty of Fish.
[00:12:18] Michelle: And did you find that there really were plenty of fish out there?
[00:12:29] Michelle: Just as she was about to give up, up pops Mark.
He had a nice sense of humor.
You know, whats going on?
What are you up to?
And so that made me feel really comfortable.
A nice soothing voice on the other end of the line.
He had a professional website so Annie could check him out.
A snappy dresser, too.
All the things and all the ways a woman might really start to feel great about.
It all seemed to check out beautifully.
They exchange pictures, stories about their families, their grandchildren.
[00:14:39] Annie: No, this guy is Academy Award material.
[00:15:36] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:15:37] Annie: So it took me much longer than it did him.
[00:16:04] Annie: So it was, would I just receive the goods?
[00:16:15] Annie: …except that, eh…
I’m not too sure about this.
[00:16:21] Annie: Oh, absolutely.
[00:16:30] Annie: If I can say yes and help somebody, I’m on it.
[00:17:07] Michelle: Oh my gosh.
[00:17:08] Annie: And rice and beans doesn’t make you suspicious.
[00:17:21] Annie: Yes.
But each time something suddenly came up.
[00:18:02] Annie: They had had a disaster, a building collapsed at the orphanage.
Someone who was suspicious of almost everything, almost from the start.
[00:18:18] Sarah: My brother and his wife met online.
My sister meets people all the time that are great people.
You know, I tried to explain the whole catfish thing to her.
And I’m like, “Mom, you’ve got to be kidding me.”
And no surgery, mind you, which is awkward and weird.
The same, same deal with Christmas.
Like face-to-face on the phone?"
You have an iPhone.
You talk my niece almost every day on FaceTime."
[00:19:56] Michelle: Well things didn’t just escalate in the excuses or the love department.
[00:20:15] Annie: So I had a little savings account that had like $30 in it.
[00:20:20] Michelle: Got it.
I could give classes on how to do bit coin.
(chuckles)
[00:21:42] Michelle: Yeah.
And I was like, “What are you talking about?”
Like, “Can’t we do it tomorrow when I don’t have plans?”
He’s like, “We have to do it today.”
[00:24:20] Michelle: Oh no.
[00:24:21] Annie: I went, I’m outta here, Jack.
I said, that does not work for me.
And I, I cut him off and ended it.
[00:24:51] Annie: …ring that way.
[00:24:53] Michelle: She didn’t feel like she was losing anything.
She loved that communication with this seemingly kind and wonderful man.
Felt happier than she had in years.
Nothing could have prepared her for that confrontation from her own children.
[00:25:49] Michelle: Oh, wow.
[00:25:50] Annie: And it was not up for negotiation.
And it wasnt that you could have a slip and then well forgive you and well start over.
It was, it was, you will never have any contact with us again.
[00:26:08] Annie: Oh, theres no question in my mind.
(chuckle)
[00:26:11] Michelle: Yeah, well thats, thats really tough love there.
I mean that, that must have been a, a wrenching decision for you.
[00:26:18] Annie: It, it was a, it was a quick, easy decision.
I mean there, there was no, I didnt have to think about it.
[00:26:32] Michelle: Sure.
[00:26:44] Michelle: Yeah, had you and Mark talked about being together ultimately?
[00:26:48] Annie: Oh yeah.
And obviously I had been lied to, and this was truths way of uncovering it for me.
[00:27:21] Annie: Yes, yeah, and it, it, it was abrupt.
[00:27:24] Michelle: Did it feel good?
Did you feel yourself waking up?
[00:27:27] Annie: I did, and I felt very loved by my kids.
He brought it out in you.
You have a confidence.
You have a glow about you.
I went and had lunch like in early September with a friend I hadnt see in six months.
I walked into the restaurant and she did not recognize me.
[00:28:54] Michelle: Oh wow.
And so, at some point in my life, someone else will see that too, thats real.
I can hold their hands and look in their eyes, and they will see that too.
A hard lesson, but scam over, right?
All wrapped up with a tidy bow… well no.
[00:29:53] Michelle: Welcome back to AARP’s The Perfect Scam.
Her husband now in a nursing home with dementia.
[00:30:51] Annie: This guy is Academy Award material.
For Annie though, it was a no-brainer.
She agreed to quit her online relationship cold turkey from that day this past January.
[00:31:49] Annie: It didn’t.
[00:32:03] Michelle: You’re a strong person to not pick up that phone.
[00:32:20] Annie: Oh, absolutely.
[00:32:22] Michelle: It’s hard to break that off, isn’t it?
And, and I’d like to meet him.
They’d talk on the phone too, a few times a week, hour-long conversations.
Here’s one actual text Mark had sent her voiced by one of our staffers.
I want you to know how much I sincerely love the times we’ve spent talking.
It means so much to me.
There will be no looking back, no second thoughts, and no regrets.
I want you and need only you, and that love will only grow stronger.
I’ve truly been blessed by finding you, and I’ll never let you go."
[00:33:58] Michelle: He invested a lot of time.
[00:34:06] Michelle: But something else was also happening.
And it said a different persons name on it, but my address.
And I thought, thats weird.
Just before Annie cut off all contact with Mark, she had asked him about this.
Why would she be getting Sasha’s flowers at her house?
That might have been the end of it, but wait, there’s more.
Annie starts getting cards and letters addressed to Sasha from someone named William.
Such a cold world.
I still love you, and if you ever change your mind, you know where to find me.
Your forever love, Mark."
[00:36:09] Michelle: you could imagine the pain for the woman who thought she knew this man.
But Annie soon had a new creepy twist to contend with.
Yes, another one.
[00:36:54] Michelle: Sure.
And so I gave him the name, and he was stunned.
[00:37:29] Michelle: And he was sending cards to this Sasha person.
Was Sasha also looking for money?
[00:37:36] Annie: Apparently.
And the person I talked to in the South was not the person who sent the flowers.
[00:37:42] Michelle: Right.
[00:37:48] Michelle: …for multiple scams.
[00:37:50] Annie: Yeah, I did not sign up for this.
So Todd looks after him as much as he can.
Simply to love and be loved.
[00:39:31] Todd: He really just started focusing on, you know, finding companionship.
[00:40:07] Todd: It really is.
[00:40:08] Michelle: Did he get mad?
The two of them, Sasha and Eldridge, talked all day for days about everything.
Sasha was exotic and entrancing, even related to royalty she said, and was a good listener.
Once Eldridge showed his nephew the photos, Todd was instantly suspicious, but Eldridge was lovestruck.
[00:41:07] Todd: I think within four days he had asked her to marry him.
[00:41:14] Michelle: Wow.
And at that point, I’m involved.
And what do you know about Google Play cards?"
And it, the red flags just went up immediately.
[00:41:49] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:41:50] Todd: And I said, “Are, are you a PC gamer?
Do you need STEAM cards?”
[00:42:16] Todd: I said, “Okay, I’ll tell you what.”
Some tellers even get special training, like through the AARP’s Bank Safe Program.
This time, the bank seemed to know immediately what was happening to Eldridge.
[00:42:59] Todd: She called him.
And I could hear the, the African accent.
[00:43:08] Michelle: Hmm.
[00:43:18] Michelle: Oh, gosh.
Did, what did he say?
[00:43:56] Michelle: This is something, by the way, anyone can do.
Does, does the voice match the photo?
[00:44:14] Todd: The voice does not match the photo.
[00:44:17] Michelle: When you confronted her on the phone, what did she say?
[00:44:20] Todd: Well, she hung up.
[00:44:46] Michelle: Did he get angry with you?
[00:44:47] Todd: Yes.
I was kind of balking at his dream, so to speak.
[00:44:53] Michelle: Todd persisted though.
Now Uncle Eldridge’s bubble is finally starting to burst.
Now you, you get to see yourself.
[00:46:00] Annie: Yeah.
[00:46:27] Michelle: It must be tough to see this happening.
[00:46:57] Michelle: Sure.
What do you think it’s going to take to get your uncle away from this stuff?
[00:47:05] Todd: (sigh) That’s a great question.
He sees that this person is fraudulent…
[00:47:14] Michelle: I see.
[00:47:20] Michelle: Got it.
In fact, they’re clearly threatening, and frankly, weirdly terrifying.
Think about your family.
This is not a warning, but you have been warned voodoo.
I am saying no more."
He threatens to destroy her family, that they will die one by one.
[00:48:26] Michelle: Are you frightened; you’re not frightened of him.
[00:48:28] Annie: No.
You could say that Annie and even Uncle Eldridge are the lucky ones.
That they both had families that stepped in forcefully almost, and kept them from going any further.
Neither of them lost tons of money, what could have been their life savings.
[00:49:30] Todd: I think he loses hope.
You know, he’s, he’s lost the hope of that.
[00:49:59] Todd: I have told him that I would go with him to do those things.
You know, “We would be glad to have you.”
It was so elaborate; it was so well thought out.
[00:51:52] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:51:53] Todd: Every comeback that we had, there was an answer for it.
Like it was scripted.
[00:52:10] Todd: Right.
Right, that’s all they’re looking for.
You know, that’s what our loved ones are looking for.
She sounds really happy to find a positive goal out of all this horror.
[00:54:39] Michelle: That’s wonderful.
You’ve been through hell and back.
You got a crash course in online dating, WhatsApp, uh, bit coin, and Face ID.
You, you know it all.
[00:54:51] Annie: Im really good at this.
[00:55:04] Annie: Um, I would probably tell him that I feel really bad for him.
He had a verbal relationship with a really amazing woman.
She is loving, shes happy, shes generous, she is full of love and loves everybody.
She has a strong family base, she has a strong faith, and you blew it.
But even now, there are dark reminders.
Im determined to not be a victim and to be the victor.
[00:56:36] Michelle: That is a beautiful, beautiful story.
[00:56:40] Annie: So I, I choose not to be a victim.
And if youve been a victim, then it’s possible for you to move on.
It, it does not have to stop where you are.
So we need to get to the victims before they become victims.
[00:57:07] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:57:07] Annie: And getting the word out there is the only way we can prevent it.
It’s one of those things.
[00:57:32] Michelle: Take great care of yourself, and I hope we speak again sometime.
[00:57:41] Michelle: Thank you.
It seems like a lot of work for not that much money, am I right?
They might be taking that same approach and doing it with 30 or 50 people.
We’ve actually seen romance scams double in the last uh 12 months.
So those types of scams are getting very popular.
Thats incredible to me.
Why do you think they’re exploding like this?
So, you feel very comfortable.
Youve gotten to know them really well; you have the same interests.
Should I be sending this person money?
We live in a world where it’s not that difficult to check people out.
Do they really work at that company?
Are they married, not married?
It’s not that difficult to do.
Or are they just getting better at their, at their fake jobs?
And that’s why education is the most powerful tool to fighting these types of crimes.
[01:02:35] Michelle: Okay.
He’s not asking me for any money.
[01:03:13] Frank Abagnale: Absolutely.
[01:03:26] Frank Abagnale: Right.
She thought she was taking donations for an orphanage.
She thought she was helping people instead of hurting people.
So yes, there are a lot of people who are used and not realize they’re being used.
You’re part of the scam even though you don’t know youre part of the scam.
[01:05:22] Michelle: That is great information.
Thanks so much, Frank.
We’ll see you next week.
[01:05:26] Frank Abagnale: Sounds good.
See you next week.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Michelle Kosinski.
She finds her new life without him lonely and joins an online dating site looking for a platonic friend.
She meets Mark, a widower and architect living in California.
Annie, who lives in the Midwest, finds the distance perfect as she wants only a friendship.
AARPs Fraud Watch web connection can help you spot and avoid scams.
