You are wondering how you will pay your bills, maybe even have enough money to buy food.
And then a bill arrives from the IRS you owe taxes on the stolen money.
My mind was just spinning every day.
I was just trying to hold it together.
You know, I just go in, I can’t express how sick my stomach felt doing this.
Am I going to jail?
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:44] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
Imagine you’ve just had everything stolen from you.
Every last penny from your checking account, your retirement accounts, taken by a criminal.
And then, at your lowest moment, one more bill arrives, from the IRS.
You owe taxes on the money that was stolen from you.
Tens of thousands of dollars in taxes.
How can this possibly be real?
Unfortunately, it’s not my imagination or a nightmare that you might wake up from.
It’s all too real.
In fact, it’s a trend.
There are proposed legislative fixes for this shocking state of affairs.
In a moment, you’ll hear from two U.S.
But first, I want you to meet Chester Frilich, who is living this very nightmare.
[00:02:06] Bob: Forensics?
What does that mean?
And I used to make the catalog and find the products and sell it to them.
[00:02:33] Bob: This sounds like you worked on a crime TV show.
[00:02:36] Chester Frilich: Uh, it may, but it wasn’t.
[00:02:52] Bob: This means you know a lot about crime, I guess.
[00:03:02] Bob: And you’re retired now?
[00:03:03] Chester Frilich: Oh, yes.
[00:03:04] Bob: How long have you been retired?
[00:03:06] Chester Frilich: Well, let’s see, about 10, 11 years.
[00:03:07] Bob: Oh, good for you.
What, what have you been doing in your retirement?
[00:03:18] Bob: Do you really?
[00:03:19] Chester Frilich: Yeah.
[00:03:20] Bob: I’m a dog person as well.
Not, not enough people spend the energy they need training their dogs, I don’t believe it.
[00:03:30] Chester Frilich: Most people do not realize they’ll start to train.
And they, they don’t do it all of the time.
That’s the biggest issue in training people.
As I said to one lady who wasn’t consistent, I said, well, are you consistent?
And she said, most of the time.
And I said, that’s wonderful because you’re going to have a terrible dog.
For 16 years, the dog’s like a two-year-old.
[00:04:10] Bob: Uh, you are, have a lot of wisdom, I can tell.
So yelling, stop eating all of my socks, that’s not going to work.
[00:04:16] Chester Frilich: No, that is not going to stop the dog.
[00:04:29] Chester Frilich: A phone call from Xfinity.
[00:04:42] Bob: He’d been hacked.
And I didn’t have the Xfinity passwords.
So he gave me Xfinity passwords so I could change the passwords.
[00:05:10] Bob: Were you shocked?
How did you feel?
So actually I thought, that’s pretty good.
I didn’t realize that the configs were set too low.
So I thought, okay, this, this guy’s legit.
[00:05:26] Bob: Sure.
[00:05:27] Bob: The operator asks Chester if he can take control of his computer.
So we can help with some necessary security changes.
And after he gains remote access, things go from bad to worse.
He gives some ID number and he says, you’ve been accused of wire fraud.
Have you ever been to Texas?
And I said, no, why?
And I said, well, I haven’t been out of the state of California for 10 years.
And he said, okay.
And I’m going, what?
Now I’m starting to panic.
How am I supposed to pay all my bills?
So at this point, I said, of course, I’m going to cooperate with you.
All of what you’re accusing me of is false.
[00:08:15] Bob: Of course, I’m going to cooperate.
All of what you’re accusing me is false.
So what do I have to do?
We will be having people watching your home, and possibly following you, until the investigation is finished.
And at that point, I’m pretty shooken, you know.
He says, whenever you leave the house, and come back, you have to call me.
And whenever you, you make a transaction to pay a bill, you have to notify us.
But, there’s more.
[00:09:37] Bob: His money will be held in a special account until the investigation is over?
Chester is panicky, but he hangs up the phone and awaits more instructions.
That call, from someone else who says he works at the FTC, comes quickly.
He does that, and then gets another call.
[00:10:03] Chester Frilich: He says, okay, we’ve sent out a courier.
The courier will be at a certain time.
He says when the courier comes, the only thing you’re to ask him is for the password.
And I will give you the password.
Don’t give him the box unless he gives you the password.
Sure enough, he gets a confirmation email for the deposit.
He does this a couple more times until, after a week or so, the instructions change slightly.
That comes with it prior to giving it to our couriers.
[00:11:42] Chester Frilich: Yeah.
My mind was just spinning every day.
I was just trying to hold it together.
You know, I just go in, I can’t express how sick my stomach felt doing this.
Am I going to jail?
[00:12:38] Bob: Am I going to jail?
The thought haunts him everywhere.
And still, he keeps following instructions and hands over the boxes of money to visitors.
Until the instructions change one more time.
[00:12:52] Chester Frilich: They said, we don’t have somebody in your area.
You’re going to have to mail the package to one of our agents in Huntington Beach, California.
So, we don’t want anybody to know what’s in the box.
What I want you to do is write down that it’s photographs and some other stuff.
Take the money, wrap it up in bubble, put a shirt around it.
and mail it UPS to this gentleman down south.
And the officer says, uh, are you Chester Frilich?
I go, yes.
And he says, well, we have some questions about a package that you mailed.
Down to Huntington Beach.
And I said, yes, I mailed that package.
I was informed to do so by the federal government.
Uh, it contains $8,500.
And he says, well, I hate to inform you, but that’s all a scam.
All my life savings is wiped out.
[00:14:15] Bob: $200,000.
But in the shock and terror of it all, there’s a tiny silver lining.
And that’s what it felt like.
[00:14:57] Bob: Chester now follows the instructions the police give him.
He fills out a police report.
He talks with detectives.
He contacts the UPS facility where the package was sent.
That $200,000 is gone.
Even with all the paperwork, even with some video footage he had shared with police.
And between them and the state, they figured it was about $32,000 that they owed in taxes.
I’ve been wiped out.
But if you don’t, then we’re going to have to lien your property.
[00:16:51] Bob: A $32,000 tax bill?
We’re going to put a lien on your property?
How could that possibly be?
But it’s true.
And that’s not all.
So I’m thinking, well, how am I supposed to pay double?
It sends him to a very dark place.
Fortunately, there were people at the dog park that I knew very well.
Um, I, I almost felt like committing suicide.
And I had considered it.
Because I just wanted out.
I’d lost everything.
And it was gone.
My dream of doing that was gone.
So I’m just going, what do I have?
Chester’s love for his dog helps keep him going.
[00:19:18] Bob: What’s your dog’s name?
[00:19:21] Chester Frilich: Cassie.
[00:19:21] Bob: Cassie.
How old is Cassie?
[00:19:23] Chester Frilich: Cassie is 12 years old and she’s a female alpha Siberian Husky.
[00:19:29] Bob: Oh boy.
You wouldn’t dare leave her.
[00:19:33] Chester Frilich: Oh, no.
She protects puppies, and pregnant ladies, and babies.
If a dog comes near it, she runs over and makes sure that dog does not bother it.
[00:19:50] Bob: And Cassie protects you, too?
[00:19:53] Chester Frilich: Yes.
But it’s true.
[00:20:15] Bob: Okay, so somebody who’s listening to this has to think to themselves.
What do you think of that?
And that’s how I’m living right now is day to day.
[00:20:36] Bob: I mean, do you think that’s fair?
[00:20:37] Chester Frilich: No, because I was brought up that the government protects you.
And that has turned out to be false.
Not one agency has gone after these people.
To this day, the phone numbers they use to scam me are still active.
I talked to the FTC.
I talked to the FBI.
I talked to IC3.
I wrote letters to the congressmen.
I wrote letters to the senators.
Everybody came back and said, well, there’s nothing we can do.
And the government agency said, we don’t help individuals.
[00:21:30] Chester Frilich: Yep.
You’re wiped out.
I don’t think people should be victimized multiple times after they’ve been scammed.
I mean, the IRS and the state and Medicare are all victimizing the victims of fraud.
I don’t see how that’s really just in our society.
[00:22:22] Chester Frilich: It’s income because I took the money out of the bank.
And even though I can prove it’s a scam, the IRS says it still counts as income.
You pulled the money out.
And the state says the same thing.
And Medicare says the same thing.
And then these agencies say, no, we can’t help you.
So you’re on your own.
You get scammed, you’re on your own.
[00:22:49] Bob: You get scammed, you’re on your own.
That’s a lonely feeling.
[00:22:52] Chester Frilich: Yeah.
[00:22:53] Bob: That report from the Senate Special Committee on Aging cited other victims like Chester.
One had $765,000 stolen.
And though the IRS More than $220,000.
The report found other kick em when they’re down impacts of scams, too.
But there is an effort to change the law.
Senators led by Republican Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Democrat Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.
Both Senators are here today to explain to us what their legislation would do.
But first, here’s AARP government affairs official Clark Flint-Barr to offer a little context.
It turns out, things haven’t always worked this way.
or from theft losses from their income when they were filing their taxes.
So, what they did is, for theft losses, they mostly removed that.
[00:25:17] Bob: Clark thinks taxing scam victims was an unintended consequence of the tax law.
[00:26:10] Senator Blumenthal: These kinds of fraud losses are so common and heartbreaking.
[00:26:24] Senator Blumenthal: It is hard to swallow, almost beyond words.
You know, it adds additional injury to the injury already suffered by Chet and his family.
[00:27:03] Senator Cassidy: Our goal as Americans should help fellow Americans.
Our goal should be that people live in independence, not in dependence.
Being financially secure is part of living independently.
The 2017 tax cut legislation is set to expire in 2025.
And so either way, I think we’re going to be able to address this next year.
So, the Casualty Loss Deduction Restoration Act, introduced by Senators Cassidy and Blumenthal, would be retroactive.
So I can’t guarantee that we’re going to be able to pass this law as it is.
[00:29:13] Senator Blumenthal: Our audience can contact their senators and members of Congress.
To urge that this measure be adopted in the closing days of this legislative session.
A new one begins in January.
And the obstacle really is.
The limited amount of time and also the potential fiscal impact.
That’s one obstacle.
The other is simply, potential partisan politics, you know, the politics that seem to cause dysfunction.
This measure is bipartisan.
That’s one of the reasons why I mentioned it at the outset.
[00:30:47] Bob: Mm hmm.
[00:30:47] Senator Blumenthal: But we need support.
So yes, I’m, I’m very hopeful and I’m going to be fighting for it.
[00:31:21] Bob: AARP supports the Blumenthal Cassidy legislation, by the way.
Now I know contacting legislators, sending letters, making phone calls, can seem hopeless.
But it’s not, Clark says.
AsPerfect Scamlisteners know, losses due to fraud are skyrocketing, endangering Americans of all ages.
I asked both senators what role Congress should play in dealing with the crisis.
[00:31:52] Senator Blumenthal: I’ve been fighting this kind of fraud for a long time.
And second, more public education.
That’s why I’m so grateful to the AARP for thisPerfect Scampodcast.
I think that you’re alerting seniors as to the dangers out there can do tremendous good.
You know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Do you see a bigger role for big tech in protecting people from these things?
AI can mimic someone’s voice.
But what if it’s now mimicking your daughter’s voice?
I’m in the middle of the road.
[00:33:15] Senator Cassidy: Can you Venmo me money?
My phone’s stolen, but my friend’s here with me.
So we’ve got to come up with, one, people need to be aware of this.
And we have to think about how to regulate that.
So, he’s living day to day.
[00:33:46] Bob: People are going to want to know, how are you doing now?
And so that’s what I’m working on.
And some days are really good and some days are really dark.
[00:34:13] Bob: He has received help from friends, especially friends at his local dog park.
One woman even set up a GoFundMe campaign for him.
It’s been a mixed bag.
[00:34:24] Chester Frilich: And people have been very generous.
Some people have accused, have actually online accused me of scamming.
Some people have called me senile or I have dementia.
It has taught me a lot about human nature.
Because they’re starting with nothing and they have to pay their bills.
I know I contemplated it, and it’s not a fair system.
[00:35:59] Bob: And that’s why Chester agreed to share his story withThe Perfect Scam.
[00:36:17] Chester Frilich: I hope so.
We’ve got to get the government to go after these people more briskly.
[00:36:47] Bob: For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
