The answer could be far more sinister than you might imagine.
The scammer may also be a victim ofhuman trafficking.
A BBC journalist and brave volunteers work to expose this brutal practice.
And oftentimes those quotas are very, very high, nearly impossible.
And so they get either beaten, shocked with these uh electric shock sticks or cattle prods.
If it’s really bad they may get sold to another compound or even… much worse.
[00:00:28] Bob: Much worse meaning what?
[00:00:29] Troy: They could have their organs harvested.
[00:00:32] Bob: Oh my God.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:35] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
Im your host, Bob Sullivan.
Have you ever thought about who’s on the other end of the line?
Who’s placing all these calls and writing all these messages?
And the story is much more disturbing than I could have ever imagined.
[00:01:36] My name is Zhaoyin Feng.
I’m an independent journalist.
I make the investigative documentaries, previously worked with the BBC.
[00:01:44] Bob: Like many of us, Zhaoyin had heard about widespread cryptocurrency scams.
[00:01:56] Zhaoyin Feng: Yeah, it was quite a rollercoaster.
I first learned about the scam several years back from Chinese media coverage.
[00:02:11] (film clip): DD says he’s a prisoner.
And he’s being held in a city called Sihanoukville.
(suspenseful music) The city is a popular destination for Chinese tourists.
Attracted to its flashy casino district.
Government-licensed casinos are legal in Cambodia, but many are being used a front for online scams.
[00:03:22] Bob: Victims of crypto scams can lose thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
We’ve interviewed several here at The Perfect Scam.
So she set out to make a movie about these victims.
To do that, she had to find one willing to talk with her.
[00:03:50] Zhaoyin Feng: We got into contact with one scammer called DD.
If he couldn’t deliver, he faced punishment; it would be beating or even electrocutions.
Many of the volunteers were once victims themselves.
[00:05:03] GASO stands for Global Anti-Scam Organization.
And we are currently a registered nonprofit organization in the US.
[00:05:12] Bob: That’s Leslie, one of the volunteers.
She asked to remain anonymous because of the dangerous nature of her work.
[00:05:21] Leslie: GASO started out around June of 2021.
[00:06:05] Bob: Troy Gothenhower is an investigator with GASO.
[00:06:09] Troy: The world has never, never seen a scam like this.
It could be a million.
It could be 5 million dollars.
[00:06:37] Bob: Clearly the people whose money is stolen are victims.
But they aren’t the only victims.
So there uh two types of victims with this scam.
[00:07:03] Troy: I follow a number of the scammers on some of their Telegram chats.
When Zhaoyin approaches GASO, they are already in touch with the prisoner we’re calling DD.
So he was trying very hard to send a message out.
[00:08:40] Zhaoyin Feng: Yeah, indeed.
He shouldn’t do anything that may jeopardize his safety.
So it was an incredibly tense situation.
I’m exhausted when I get back to the dormitory.”
When he can, DD describes some horrific things happening in the compound.
It sounds ridiculous, but that’s the life scammers had to go through in the compound.
But the planning took a long time because there were a lot of elements to consider.
So it took a long time to plan, so DD was impatient.
[00:11:03] Bob: Leslie says that’s pretty typical for GASO escapes.
They can take a long time.
[00:11:09] Leslie: It’s extremely frustrating for us.
Our resources are limited, we are an organ–, volunteer-based organization.
They want to leave."
There are times when we just can’t help a person that’s contacting us.
It depends on their nationality.
Sometimes it has to do with ransom.
So are they going to be able, able to pay that ransom?
So these are the logistics of the difficulties that we go through on a daily basis.
Sometimes it’s political, a lot of times it’s financial.
So yeah, it’s, its not easy to get anyone out from a compound.
So while you were filming this you, you knew DD was inside?
[00:13:29] Zhaoyin Feng: Yeah.
And it really strike me when we’re filming outside the compound, it was very quiet.
And it’s shocking how many of these syndicates are still operating in Southeast Asia.
There’s even a police station right next to the compound.
[00:14:38] Bob: I find that absolutely chilling to think about.
You find out about this human being who is desperate to get out.
[00:14:57] Zhaoyin Feng: Yeah, I couldn’t do anything to help him.
So of course we established a relationship with DD.
He’s like a younger brother to us.
We really felt for him.
But after 4 months in captivity, DD lost his hope somehow.
[00:15:48] Bob: A cryptic message from DD arrives.
That seems to say, simply, goodbye.
[00:15:57] Zhaoyin Feng: He said he couldnt stand this anymore.
He really didn’t want to hurt people.
He said goodbye to us and we were really worried because he went offline.
[00:16:14] Bob: Will GASO ever hear from DD again?
We’ll find out in a moment.
“This is actually a fairly recent development,” Leslie from GASO says.
And these were people that were essentially stuck because they couldn’t go home.
And that’s what they tell me.
So I think we, we take a lot of things for granted being here in the US.
Yeah, and so it’s a very strange feeling talking to them.
And oftentimes those quotas are hit, are very, very high, like nearly impossible.
[00:20:35] Bob: Much worse meaning what?
[00:20:36] Troy: They could have their organs harvested.
[00:20:39] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:21:24] Bob: Hmm, that’s just remarkable.
It’s like a scam university.
[00:21:26] Troy: That, that is exactly what it is.
It is, it is an industry.
There are actually companies that support this industry.
There are developers who will make their websites.
So one-stop fraud shop.
[00:22:00] Bob: Wow.
[00:22:41] Bob: How do victims sneak out messages to places like GASO?
[00:22:45] Leslie: They do it very secretly.
A lot of them don’t have their own personal phones.
Most of the time we use codes.
[00:23:22] Bob: There is information suggesting that punishments can be very, very severe.
But it was too late.
[00:24:24] Zhaoyin Feng: Ooh, so difficult scenes to describe.
We also received many videos from GASO.
And you know I don’t need to mention that they are also forbidden to, to leave.
If they take a stab at escape and is caught later, they will face even harsher condition.
[00:25:28] (film clip): The pop in of violence DD witnesses is common.
What system is there that allows this to go on?
[00:25:52] Zhaoyin Feng: That’s a really good question.
It’s a lawless place to operate such scam syndicates.
[00:26:49] Bob: Zhaoyin’s research led her to find many shocking things about these crime compounds.
[00:26:55] Zhaoyin Feng: It surprised me how well organized the syndicate is.
It all leads to the angle of convincing the victims to invest.
So this is much more sophisticated.
It’s another thing to say, “We have a shared future.
Can, can we make money together for this dream that we’re trying to create together.”
They profile themselves as someone good at investing.
[00:29:12] Zhaoyin Feng: Yeah, that’s right.
So the scam really developed in the past few years.
And there are success stories.
So we would, we would love your cooperation if you’re free to release this person.
And even for someone to get released there are a lot of logistics.
They don’t just walk out of the compound and cross a border.
Thailand is sort of the hub of where everyone goes in and comes out.
[00:31:51] Bob: But the process is fraught with potential pitfalls.
And there have been some heartbreaks.
[00:32:19] Bob: Ugg.
So yeah, it’s, it’s very, it’s very complicated.
Sometimes it can be disheartening, but we try our best.
[00:32:59] Bob: Some victims just can’t bring themselves to take the risk.
I don’t want to die.
And that’s one of the challenges that we face.
So we’re, we’re very guarded in that sense.
[00:34:38] Bob: Yeah, I assume you are, your organization is a threat to them.
[00:34:42] Leslie: Oh, of course.
Yeah, they are constantly trying to find out trying to find out who we are.
I believe our founder has received multiple threats because she’s interfering with business.
So, so it, it can be, it can be sensitive at times.
One day he just sent us a farewell message.
He said, “I can’t stand this anymore.
I really don’t want to hurt people.
And when we received that message, our heart sank.
We were extremely worried.
[00:35:48] Bob: A half a day goes by and nothing.
He felled on the bushes.
He felt excruciating pain from his left leg.
He also smashed his bone, but thankfully, no one seemed to have noticed that he jumped out.
He had saved up 100 dollar from working in this compound for four months.
So he managed to hail a taxi which took him to somewhere safe.
And on the taxi, he, he videochatted with us telling us that he make it out.
We were all so relieved and we were cheering that uh, DD is free now.
[00:37:08] Bob: DD is free now.
And Zhaoyin isn’t too far away.
Remember, shed driven by the complex DD was being held at only a few days earlier.
So she’s able to arrange to meet with DD in person.
He didn’t have any other clean clothes that he could change to.
Um, he was also still suffering from the injury he, he got from jumping out the window.
Um, so he had bruises on his body.
Um…
[00:37:48] Bob: What was your first thought when you saw him?
He seemed very naive and very sweet and calm.
He doesn’t look like a scammer at all.
But um, he was made to do what he didn’t want to do.
[00:38:28] Bob: But he looked very young.
[00:38:29] Zhaoyin Feng: Yeah, he’s a 30-year-old, he was really young.
He was a bit quiet, extremely sweet and polite.
[00:38:38] Bob: So what happens next for DD?
And at the end of the film you saw a message from DD.
Different countries have different approaches to this kind of uh returnees.
It’s not an easy life after getting out of the compound.
Maybe perhaps trying to get more education, all of those difficulties are still there.
So we would love to be able to help them out more with that if we can.
Which is why a lot of our human trafficking victims, don’t necessarily even want to go home.
I had a, a scammer that I’ve been in contact with for a little while.
He doesn’t have the money to pay his way out.
And all they said was, “Raise your hand if you want to leave.”
So I asked him, I said, “Why didn’t you raise your hand?”
So you are automatically put on trial.
The, the potential of going to jail for at least five years is extremely high.
And he didn’t want that.
So he, he…
[00:43:18] Bob: That’s heartbreaking.
Even your, your phone bill, a meal, everything.
Water you have to buy.
Anything you could think of, and it’s not cheap.
[00:43:58] Bob: Wow.
But this requires collaboration of many, many countries in the region.
[00:46:05] Troy: My wish list is that people would I, I guess would get informed.
When it hit the West, nobody had heard of it.
There was no one to go to.
There was no law enforcement that knew about it, no media knew about it.
But now it’s everywhere.
And so my wish list 1) is that people were more aware, informed.
Some do, some are working on it.
Some don’t seem to be working on it much at all.
[00:47:23] Leslie: There’s a lot of stigma involved with it.
There’s a lot of shame involved with it.
A lot of people don’t necessarily want to, to talk about it.
For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
