For them, life is very egocentric, it’s very much about them.
There may be rules out there, but they sure as heck don’t apply to them.
[00:00:22] Michelle: Welcome back to AARP’s The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Michelle Kosinski.
Last week we brought you a story that might seem unbelievable if it weren’t all true.
A psychologist who had been practicing for years in reality had all the credentials of a 10th grade education.
You definitely want to hear last week’s episode on how this all came about.
[00:01:14] Kathy Baran: I feel so angry.
I mean I could use stronger language, but, but really, it’s horrible.
You know, and if that makes you a psychologist, I don’t know.
But what Scott Redman did was in Illinois only a misdemeanor.
He pleaded guilty and served no time in prison.
It’s what he did next that is even more stunning.
[00:02:41] Kathy Baran: You’ve got to be kidding.
[00:03:06] Kathy Baran: That’s how bold he was.
His mugshot was on TV.
I was interviewed on TV.
He did it again.
[00:03:55] This was a weird piece.
[00:04:03] Michelle: Do you get all the weird ones that nobody else wants?
[00:04:06] Katie Durick: Yes.
[00:04:06] Michelle: Like here, you take this one.
[00:04:08] Katie Durick: We received a call from the DEA, so Drug Enforcement Administration.
From the very get-go it was, we need to react very quickly.
[00:04:23] Katie Durick: Yeah.
[00:04:26] Katie Durick: No.
So we had to, you know, gather information pretty quickly.
We issued search warrants and an arrest warrant.
I think within a few weeks there was a lot of evidence.
His name was not um, Dr. Julian Lopez-Garcia.
[00:06:21] Katie Durick: I think we catalogued 57 different patients.
He issued about 92 prescriptions to those patients for Schedule II, III, and IV controlled substances.
[00:06:32] Michelle: His prescriptions were messy; his instructions didn’t really make sense.
This was dangerous to the point of life-threatening.
He had taken advantage of vulnerable victims with no medical training.
He’s prescribing these powerful controlled substances.
How does he know the correct dosage?
She hasn’t been able to go back to therapy.
She knows it would help her, she’s just not ready to trust like that again.
[00:08:07] Kathy Baran: He could have easily killed somebody.
He killed a lot of spirits.
[00:08:27] Michelle: That actually gives me the chills up and down my arms.
[00:08:30] Kathy Baran: Yeah.
You know, kind of like you see in a movie.
[00:08:46] Kathy Baran: I just couldn’t believe it.
I just couldn’t believe it.
[00:09:03] Kathy Baran: He kind of shrugged shoulders and hands in the air.
Pretty much, yeah.
[00:09:09] Michelle: That’s scary.
[00:09:10] Kathy Baran: Yeah.
It’s, it’s, it’s pretty horrible.
[00:10:26] Katie Durick: I think that it started to unravel during a um insurance credentialing check.
Things started to unravel pretty quickly.
This was a slam dunk for a new AUSA.
[00:11:13] Katie Durick: The evidence was overwhelming.
This went to trial, and the whole time Redman presented himself as the victim.
He was adamant that he had done nothing wrong, that he had the know-how and was helping people.
Listen to this interrogation tape of him.
It was incredibly unconventional, but I had to do something.
Yet, he kept defending himself.
He was still claiming he had a PhD from universities that had no record.
So he really maintained throughout the whole thing, that he had qualifications that he didn’t have.
This is someone who still thinks he was the one who was wronged here.
[00:14:03] Michelle: Kathy Baran saw the same thing when she confronted him as his patient.
[00:14:07] Kathy Baran: Again, brilliant man.
[00:14:09] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:14:10] Kathy Baran: He thought he was untouchable.
What would you tell people in, in searching for a doctor?
[00:14:37] Kathy Baran: At first be cautious.
Get as many referrals as you’re free to.
And always trust your gut.
If that sick to your stomach is telling you something’s wrong, it’s usually something’s wrong.
And I didn’t listen to it.
I haven’t recovered from this.
He was convicted of multiple crimes and sentenced to 13 years in federal prison.
That’s where he is right now.
After a decade of fake doctoring, Redman has been demoted to inmate behind bars in Arkansas.
He did try one more bold move appealing his case, but it failed.
[00:15:19] Michelle: Were you guys satisfied with the outcome?
What, what do you think about somebody who would do this?
[00:16:16] Michelle: Yeah.
He believes this whole lie.
I actually believe that he believes it.
[00:16:25] Michelle: Kathy, the patient, may be absolutely right in assessing her fake psychologist.
[00:16:54] Ramani Durvasula: Narcissism is very learned.
This has a lot to do with early relationships, with issues we call attachment.
It can relate to other darker issues like trauma.
It can also be associated with things like how a person’s parented.
Is there a tiny bit of nature at play?
[00:18:00] Michelle: Oh, that’s interesting.
So how do you avoid your kid becoming a narcissist?
That you love your child not for what they do, but for who they are.
[00:18:19] Michelle: So, what internally drives a person to take such outlandish risks as this?
Obviously, the stakes are high.
To go and impersonate somebody else, is risk-taking the main driver here?
Is it somebody who just doesn’t have any inhibitions in that sense?
They don’t care about the people they’re impacting.
It’s just, they don’t think through the risk.
[00:19:38] Michelle: Exactly.
And that’s what fascinates me about it.
If you had to sort of put this kind of person in a nutshell, well who does this?
So it’s as though other people don’t exist.
[00:21:21] Ramani Durvasula: So what’s a con man or con woman?
[00:21:42] Michelle: Right.
And once they are found out, it never seems to deter them.
People like this often live very parasitic lifestyles.
There’s a lot of inconsistency, very inconsistent work histories.
It’s as though they’ll play many, many characters over the course of a lifetime.
They almost feel as though they’re entitled to take advantage of other people.
If someone is hustlable, then they deserve to be hustled.
[00:22:43] Michelle: Yeah, and what, what are these people after really?
Is it the thrill of pretending?
A lot of it is ego.
Again, thus the parasitic on the fringe’s lifestyles.
People like this are motivated simply by winning and getting what they want.
[00:23:27] Michelle: Yeah.
So where does the break happen in people who don’t seem to mind hurting others?
They look out for each other.
If they see someone in need, they will stop and help them.
And other people’s needs don’t even make sense to them.
[00:25:14] Michelle: Would you say that empathy is innate or learned or a combination?
[00:25:19] Ramani Durvasula: Empathy is probably a combination of innate and learned.
I mean human children recognize human faces; it’s one of the first things that they recognize.
Because we need that.
And empathy sort of develops, and it develops over childhood into adolescence and into adulthood.
[00:26:00] Michelle: For sure.
Can they, and do they turn it around?
[00:26:19] Dr. Ramani Durvasula: The research has not been very promising.
And this is where our justice system really comes up short.
And so, he’s the kind of person where people kind of kept giving him second chances.
That totally emboldened him.
There’s not even any accountability.
And I think what this person did was psychological violence.
[00:28:13] Michelle: Yep.
[00:28:40] Ramani Durvasula: I was like are you kidding me?
And I think that when youre in the presence of it, it’s absolutely chilling.
So he wasn’t a therapist anymore, he was a psychologist.
And then, okay, that didn’t work out, somebody’s checking in on that.
Okay, now he’s a psychiatrist and now he’s prescribing drugs to people.
It’s just, it’s impossible to imagine having that mindset, but what do you think?
[00:30:05] Frank Abagnale: Oh, absolutely.
So, talk about bold.
This person obviously felt like he could just learn by going or, or something.
I, I never graduated from high school.
I, I received my GED while I was in federal prison.
Sooner or later it’s going to catch up with you.
[00:31:49] Frank Abagnale: I’m glad to be there.
[00:31:50] Michelle: Thanks for joining us again.
[00:31:50] Frank Abagnale: Thank you.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Michelle Kosinski.
This time he poses as a psychiatrist, prescribing medications to his new patients.
However, the authorities are on to Redman and are determined to stop this serial con artist.
AARPs Fraud Watch data pipe can help you spot and avoid scams.
