Im your host Bob Sullivan.
Before we get to this week’s episode, just a quick exciting announcement.
The Perfect Scam now has its own email address theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org and we want to hear from you.
Or, just send us some feedback.
That email address again is theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Sometimes in life, things go sideways and you go looking for help.
Weve all been there.
Todays guest, Debra finds her life suddenly turned upside down.
Heres host Will Johnson with the story.
[00:01:33] Will: Debra was having a really bad day.
She had a new boyfriend and life had been looking pretty good.
But then, that day.
[00:01:50] Debra: I lost both of my part-time jobs this, within 24 hours.
[00:02:26] Will: It was the kind of day that no one would want to have.
The kind of day where you might look for help or answers.
[00:02:59] Will: So on that particularly bad day, Debra decided, why not?
That’s how it’s, you know, it’s very exclusive.
So you press a button.
And that’s when my life turned into a nightmare, um, making a very bad decision.
Is that more or less what happened?
[00:04:00] Debra: Oh no.
They charge, the least service they charged was $75 for 45 minutes.
[00:04:36] Debra: And she was, she was dressed to the nines.
She was wearing um, a very expensive houndstooth suit, perfect makeup, perfect hair.
She was very attractive.
She wasn’t dressed as if she was going to work.
[00:04:57] Will: Did she make you feel comfortable and that you could trust her?
[00:05:00] Debra: Yes, she did.
And she kept saying my name over and over and over.
[00:05:09] Will: How long did the reading last?
It lasted, did you do 45 minutes and go through the whole thing?
[00:05:14] Debra: Yes, we did.
[00:05:16] Will: Yeah.
So that was the first initial contact I had with her.
[00:05:42] Will: Debra left Sylvia that day, but the experience stayed with her.
A few weeks later, back in New York she decides to see Sylvia again.
On that second visit, the plot thickens.
[00:06:09] Will: Debra says that was the first time she felt a little bit uncomfortable.
I wanted the answer, I wanted it now.
Um, I’m a New Yorker myself, so you know how New Yorkers are.
I want it now, and I want it yesterday.
[00:06:25] Will: She paid $1000 for a two-hour deep reading.
Did you like hearing what you were hearing, or did you agree with it at the time?
But the story grabbed Debra.
It seemed to fit.
Somehow it was the beginning of a pattern that seemed clear.
Sylvia’s spell was working.
Debra went back for a third time.
It would be her last visit.
Debra, as we say here at AARP, was under the ether, and Debra knows that now.
But its almost like she can’t believe her own story.
[00:08:33] Will: Back in New York with a check, she hands it over to Sylvia.
I need to cancel this check tomorrow.
[00:08:59] Will: Right away Debra calls Sylvia.
She asks for her money back.
And I said, “What do you mean you could’t give it to me right now?
I, I want the check back.
That was our agreement.”
And um, that’s when it all went downhill and she became um, invisible.
She no longer took my calls.
Here, here we go.
Did you tell anyone what was going on?
[00:09:41] Debra: I did not tell a soul.
I was too humiliated.
[00:09:47] Will: Desperate, Debra went to the police in Florida and filled out a report.
That someone is Bob Nygaard.
(phone ring)
[00:10:45] Bob Nygaard: This is Bob.
[00:10:46] Will: Hey, Bob, it’s Will Johnson at AARP.
[00:10:47] Bob Nygaard: How are you doing, Will?
[00:10:48] Will: I am great, thanks so much for making time for us.
[00:10:50] Bob Nygaard: Not a problem.
He might know as much about psychic scams as anyone, even the psychics know about Bob.
[00:11:00] Bob Nygaard: These self-proclaimed psychics, they know me all over the country.
They know me by name, and, and they know this is what I do.
[00:11:05] Will: Here comes Bob.
[00:11:06] Bob Nygaard: Yeah, here comes Bob.
He says, “We’re getting hit hard by these transient key in criminals.”
And uh she was out $12,500.
[00:14:55] Will: Bob took the case and ended up getting a psychic scammer in Florida busted.
It was the start of a new career for Bob.
He knew that a lot of cops didn’t really know how to respond to scam victims.
Stories can be murky and like Debra, it’s tough to believe.
They require reports, investigation, sometimes years of it.
She says, “and, and I don’t know what to do.”
And she goes, I don’t know what to do.”
And I said, “Okay, listen, I’ll do the best I can.
I’ve recovered millions of dollars for people, for victims.
She says, “Bob, you don’t understand.”
And I said, “Well, no, I do.
You know, I’ve, I’ve had a lot of clients.”
And she says, “Bob, you don’t get it.”
I said, “What don’t I get?”
And that’s a rough ledge.
He also brings a working knowledge of all the ways psychic scammers go about their work.
The tactics range from pretty basic to downright bizarre.
What is bothering this person?
And then they, you know how was the person dressed?
Why did you have cancer?
You know, God never meant for you to have cancer.
There’s something that’s causing this, and I need to find out what it is.”
And a lot of times they’ll use religious terminology which bothers me a lot.
They’ll say, “I’m doing God’s work.
And this is only between you, me, and God.
you might’t tell anybody else about the work.”
It’ll be worse than if we never started."
And he decided to marry your mother instead.
You might grow up to become an old woman and live alone and have eight cats in the house.
[00:18:59] Bob Nygaard: Many, many times.
It’s exact word for word what I was told."
[00:19:26] Bob Nygaard: Okay, well you’re 30 years old.
I need you to get $30,000.
The evil will be drawn to the money.
So I need you to get an egg.
An egg represents the soul.
So you gotta go to the store and buy a carton of eggs.
Take one egg out, put it under the mattress with the $30,000.
It won’t break."
That’s just a curse.
This is what was going on.
You know, I need to take the egg and the money and get rid of it.
We’re both in danger right now.
My family’s in danger, my children are in danger, your family’s in danger.
you oughta get out of here right away.
But don’t worry, I’ll take care of everything.
And therein lies the theft.
Create a sense of dependency.
You have to listen to me and only me, okay?
Don’t listen to anybody else.
Uh, one of the things that’s create a seize mentality.
They’re worried their husband’s not coming back to them.
A child just died but exacerbate the victim’s existing fears.
“Oh, the child is never going to get to heaven.
[00:23:46] Bob: Can Bob help Debra get back her $28,000?
Will Sylvia ever face justice?
Thats next week on The Perfect Scam.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch internet Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
Our email address at The Perfect Scam is theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
And we want to hear from you.
Or, just send us some feedback.
That address again is theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
The shop is well-appointed with lavish decor and plaques that show additional locations in glamorous cities around the world.
Seeking closure and desperate for a solution to her problems, Debra starts to believe and trust Sylvia.
When she returns the check, Sylvia tells Debra that her money and trust issues will be solved.
Debra follows Sylvias instructions and gets the money for the check from a home equity loan.
However, as soon as she hands the check over, Debra realizes she has made a terrible mistake.
For instance, if you are looking for a job you are more vulnerable to a work-at-home scam.
