This doesn’t sound legit."
And I even like defended my mom at that point because I didn’t want her to feel embarrassed.
[00:00:22] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
[00:00:41] Bob: Could you just tell me something about your husband?
And we got married at ages 21 and 24 while he was in graduate school.
We have one daughter.
She loves and admires her parents very much.
[00:01:33] Kara: My parents are great people.
[00:02:23] Bob: He was just in his mid-70s.
Everyone in the family was in shock.
That’s perfectly normal.
And there’s arrangements to be made, lots of arrangements.
Lots of details, lots of paperwork.
It was a Thursday, late in the afternoon, about 4 pm.
[00:03:08] Janet: They identified themselves as coming from the State Retirement and Benefits Office.
[00:03:32] Bob: The caller says there’s some paperwork to fill out.
“Well, how much would that be?”
[00:04:31] Bob: That night?
And they said, “Well you’re free to buy,” they were called reload-it cards.
I have since seen them all over the place.
But at that point, they told me I could only get them at Safeway or Office Depot.
And I needed to have those drawn up et cetera.
And I said, I went over to the Bank of America at the mall.
And I could not get more than $500 out of the bank at the time in the ATM.
So I, honestly, I was really close to distraught.
And they were very persistent and kept saying, well you have to do this.
I have the money."
That’s when the caller comes up with a bold suggestion.
[00:05:58] Janet: “Well you could do that by going to a casino.”
I said, “Are you serious?”
The transaction just won’t go through.
She tries a second card.
That withdrawal is rejected also.
“Well, you’re going to have to get the money.
Have you tried your debit card?”
And I said, “Nope.”
So she’s instructed to drive somewhere else and buy gift cards that she can drop in the mail.
I will get you the address and everything."
[00:07:46] Bob: The caller stays on the line with her now, steering her every move.
Even with the cash cards in hand, Janet now has another problem.
She’s lost her reading glasses.
And there was a Dollar Store there.
I mean it gets to be kind of funny.
[00:08:20] Bob: The next instruction is to race to the post office before closing time.
By now the rain is pouring down, and she’s not sure she’ll get there in time.
It was a harrowing, white-knuckle drive to beat the clock.
[00:08:32] Janet: And I said, “Is there a pickup?”
I mean that just sounds like such a horrible scene from a bad movie.
[00:09:04] Janet: It was awful.
I was actually, I could feel my heart racing.
I was just, like how am I going to get this done?
And I’m thinking, now I’m thinking, Janet, this was so stupid.
I don’t know.
[00:09:41] Janet: I pull up to the front of the post office.
There are two mailboxes.
And I look at them, neither one has a late pickup.
So I’m on my cellphone, and they had stayed on my cellphone.
“Oh, no, we talked to them.
I will connect you with the post office.”
This should have rang so many bells but it, it wasn’t.
“Put it in the one to the right.”
And I thought this was over, everything was mailed, et cetera.
[00:10:24] Bob: Five hours later, she’s finally done.
The next day another call comes about a second insurance policy.
The policy on Kara, her daughter.
And again, same thing.
And I said, “All right.”
I knew the routine.
And they said, “you’re free to go to a Safeway.”
And then they said, “What will this be used for?”
And I said, “Personal reasons.”
I had to go to two different Safeways because there was a maximum that I hit.
I said, “Well that’s different than last night.”
[00:12:11] Janet: And they told me to put it in the mail, I did.
And she said, “And she didn’t tell you about the policy for your daughter?”
And I said, “No, and she was very belligerent to me.”
“Well we’ll have to investigate that, because she should have told you.”
She called me later to check on if I had mailed everything.
Sounds reasonable to me.
“And I listened, and she did not give you truthful information.
She should have told you about the other policy.”
And this is such a good cop/bad cop routine.
They had it down very well.
[00:13:08] Bob: Janet is exhausted.
The $50,000 insurance policy for her, the other $20,000 insurance policy for Kara.
They make plans for dinner and a visit later that night.
As Kara listens, something doesn’t sit right with her, but there’s so much going on.
[00:13:29] Kara: Didn’t really think anything of it.
And then when I talked to her later that Friday, she started to fill me in.
And she even said to me that she wasn’t aware that my dad had this other insurance policy.
[00:14:12] Bob: Kara starts to worry there might not really be an insurance policy.
But she decides to bite her tongue for the time being.
[00:14:19] Kara: And, you know, I was trying to be supportive of my mom.
You know, she’s just lost my, you know, my dad.
She and my dad were married for over 50 years, and she was absolutely devasted and heartbroken.
And to be honest, I was also really sad.
I was grieving my father, also exhausted too.
[00:15:19] Bob: But the next morning, they have another chance to talk.
[00:15:21] Kara: I work my partner up.
This was a Sunday morning.
We’ve looked into it more."
And she started to cry.
[00:15:52] Bob: It was another horrible moment in a month of horrible moments.
Something else to add to the grief.
Janet remembers it this way.
It makes no sense.
Something wrong has happened.
And I got up, and they’re already up waiting for me.
And they said, “Yeah.”
[00:16:18] Bob: While they talk and cry, Janet begins to understand what has happened.
And I was willing to do it.
So I gave them roughly 9000 plus dollars.
If they would have called me a week later, I would have hung up on them.
[00:17:05] Bob: But this story isn’t over.
Once Janet and Kara accept the reality of the situation, well, then they get to work.
And I said, “Yeah, this isn’t real.
This is a scam.”
[00:17:32] Kara: We called her bank immediately and got put through to basically freeze her accounts.
She couldn’t use her credit cards anymore, because they had been frozen.
[00:18:07] Kara: Yes, we will be able to recover about half of the money.
They gave her strength to keep fighting.
And they said, “No, you’re not.
No, you’re not.”
And they said, “You know, this happens more than you would like to hear about.”
And people, I think, are taken for a lot more money than I was taken for.
Who knows what they would have asked for next.
You’ve been physically and mentally exhausted, and you just can’t think straight.
And I think you just have to look at the whole picture and probably trust your gut.
And don’t be embarrassed.
[00:21:15] Bob: Report it.
It’s so important that people talk about these crimes when they happen.
The criminals are professionals.
Only when consumers talk about these crimes can people fight back against these crime gangs.
[00:21:30] Kara: These people knew exactly what to do.
And they’re monsters, you know.
[00:21:49] Bob: And there’s another benefit to Janet for stepping forward, Kara says.
If somebody called your house, you answered the phone.
Just let it go to voicemail and just ignore that text or delete it.
If they receive an email that seems odd, delete it.
Don’t respond, don’t hit anything.
They’re going to specifically target your parents especially because they’re grieving.
And so, warning, you know, those adult children to be on the lookout.
But one thing he stresses in every situation is to pay attention to quick, unexpected emotion changes.
That might be the best trick of all that scammers have.
Now those emotions are quick changing.
Her thoughts are changing.
Anthony says it’s obvious they profiled Janet.
So Im going to pitch her on a phantom of getting this insurance money.
If youre financially having difficulty, come up with financial schemes.
Then the next thing on a phantom is theyll create a story that sells that phantom to you.
Why are you getting it?
Youve won a, a lottery prize; your name came up.
[00:26:30] Anthony Pratkanis: Yes.
Janet’s daughter showed the, some of the best tools in action.
Its hard to see whats going on.
Youre constantly responding to what the fraud criminal has to say.
Whats up with that?
Oh, dont fall prey for that, youre stupid.
And by calling a person, so its just reminding them that they did something bad.
Thats weird – to help them start seeing the fraud.
Also help build up their self-esteem.
double-check that they feel comfortable.
[00:28:40] Anthony Pratkanis: Exactly.
Thats exactly the right approach to take in that situation.
[00:28:45] Bob: Exactly the right approach.
We really could learn a lot from Kara and her kindness.
[00:28:51] Kara: And I think it’s also like a delicate balance to not overstep.
And I said, “No.”
You know, and I think you just have to kind of find whatever that, that balance is.
[00:29:43] Bob: You are so thoughtful about this.
[00:29:47] Kara: Thank you.
[00:29:53] Kara: Good enough is okay.
Um, and to take it a day at a time.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
Five days after her husbands funeral, Janet gets a call.
AARPs Fraud Watch data pipe can help you spot and avoid scams.
