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[00:00:30] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
But precisely because job seekers can be under so much pressure, they’re often vulnerable to manipulation.
It involves a woman named Cathy Junior in Utah who lives with her husband in an assisted-living facility.
She’s really charming.
So let’s begin there.
[00:01:22] Cathy Junior: I got remarried and we had my, my husband was falling.
She’s got a really positive attitude.
They will be happy to have you."
And we thought that was really sweet of her to say.
[00:02:27] Bob: Assisted living is a lot more expensive than where you were living, right?
[00:02:30] Cathy Junior: Oh yes.
We went from $1000 a month to 5000.
[00:02:36] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:03:11] Cathy Junior: Yeah.
I was enjoying retirement.
[00:03:14] Bob: So she fixed up her resume and started looking for a job.
But let’s back up just a bit and hear about that resume.
Cathy has led quite a life.
She was in the Army Reserve for 14 years.
[00:03:27] Bob: Wow, what did you do?
[00:03:29] Cathy Junior: I was an administrator.
[00:03:31] Bob: And where were you?
[00:03:32] Cathy Junior: I did all kinds of things for many different outfits.
And so I kept up their regs to verify they got paid, those kinds of wonderful things.
And, and then I got moved to, back to Montana.
My ex-husband was military so we moved a little bit.
And then we went to Germany.
It was all active Army.
So went, I had to wait until I came back to Kalispell to go back to the Reserves.
Brand new building, it was kinda fun.
[00:04:50] Bob: You saw a lot in the Army Reserves, didn’t you?
[00:04:53] Cathy Junior: Yeah, I did.
[00:04:55] Bob: Ah, that’s great.
[00:05:01] Bob: Oh wow.
[00:05:06] Bob: Wow.
[00:05:08] Cathy Junior: So we uh, we did all kinds of things.
[00:05:11] Bob: I’m sure you’re very proud of the time you worked there.
[00:05:13] Cathy Junior: Yes, yes, I, I loved the Army Reserves.
I had studied as an electronic engineer.
So I’ve done a lot of different things.
But she really wants to work from home.
I checked out Better Business Bureau; it looked like they were legit.
So I said yes.
[00:06:27] Bob: What was the company called?
[00:06:29] Cathy Junior: PNP Ship.
[00:06:30] Bob: And did they have some kind of job interview with you or something?
[00:06:33] Cathy Junior: Yes.
[00:06:44] Bob: The job sounds perfect for someone who wants to work from home.
And so that’s, that was a pretty simple process.
[00:07:33] Bob: Was there some kind of training when you got hired?
How did that work?
[00:07:36] Cathy Junior: There is training, it’s done online.
And that was all I needed to do was get those shipped out and get them timely.
[00:08:06] Bob: Speed is key, she’s told, but the pay is pretty good.
[00:08:32] Bob: You got a bonus for doing it quickly, too, right?
[00:08:35] Cathy Junior: Yeah.
[00:08:36] Bob: The opportunity sounds ideal, so Cathy accepts the job and starts right away.
There’s an online portal she uses to log her work, to message with bosses.
It’s all very organized.
[00:08:49] Cathy Junior: You logged in.
All you had to enter was the pictures.
It was easier than that even.
The serial numbers were on the pictures, that was part of what we had to take.
The, the pictures of, of the items and what they were.
Some of it was really small, some of it was larger.
But for the most part, it was an easy job.
[00:09:24] Cathy Junior: You had to get in.
And everything was there.
If you needed to message the management, everything was there.
Those three people I had phone numbers for.
[00:10:04] Bob: Remember the bit about getting a bonus for delivering packages quickly?
Well Cathy and her husband are well suited to do that.
We live in a downtown area where everything is close.
So…
[00:10:34] Bob: Well that’s nice.
So we did that, and that, that went by fine.
[00:10:42] Bob: They probably got to know you at the post office, right?
Luckily at that point I was off oxygen.
So I was able to take things in and out.
[00:11:05] Bob: Where were all those packages going?
[00:11:14] Bob: But all in the US?
[00:11:15] Cathy Junior: Yes, but they had different names on them.
The, the names um, were definitely not American.
[00:11:27] Cathy Junior: No.
No, supposedly they were people who took them to the customs.
It was keeping us distracted.
[00:12:17] Bob: They want her to start purchasing things.
But there’s a problem.
No problem, the boss says, they’ll pay off the balance for her.
[00:12:37] Bob: They paid off your credit card, wow.
That’s, how did that work?
And it went fine.
[00:12:54] Cathy Junior: Yeah.
[00:12:56] Bob: Got it.
[00:12:57] Bob: So she starts acting like a purchasing agent too.
[00:13:02] Bob: What did you pick up?
They were mostly all Apple things.
And I started small because that’s what I could afford.
Luckily, it’s just down here at the mall, it’s a couple of blocks away.
I went and got it, picked it up, sent them the receipt information.
They sent me the packing list, or the packing label.
You know how you’re free to set up a payment, an auto payment from a bank.
[00:13:56] Bob: But within a few days this seemingly ideal job starts to unravel.
The trouble first becomes obvious around those credit card payments.
[00:14:07] Cathy Junior: It was about three days.
And things started bouncing and they’re bouncing back.
First one, my payment for the…
I’m like, wait a minute.
They sent it to fraud.
We’ll send you a check, we’ll send it out next day."
I never got it.
[00:14:55] Cathy Junior: These, $1500 apiece, and so I’m like, uh-oh.
[00:15:10] Cathy Junior: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:15:12] Bob: So Cathy is now owed money for all those trips to the post office.
She’s got a big balance on her credit card, and then the shipping company ships out.
[00:15:46] Bob: The job was fake.
The online portal was fake.
The credit card payment was, in effect, fake, but the pain for Cathy is quite real.
[00:15:57] Bob: Oh man.
So all, all told, what was the amount that was stolen from you?
[00:16:11] Bob: The salary you were missing was about 4500 also?
[00:16:13] Cathy Junior: Yes.
[00:16:15] Bob: Wow.
Yeah, and of course this is a, a month’s worth of distraction and heartbreak, right?
[00:16:21] Cathy Junior: Yes.
And now she has no pay and a huge credit card bill.
But this story has a happy ending because right about then their Medicaid appeal comes through.
So Cathy no longer needs to work.
[00:16:48] Cathy Junior: Yes.
I was enjoying retirement and I’m now enjoying retirement again.
[00:17:04] Bob: Cathy can be retired again.
Everybody has to be on their guard every day, all the time.
(laughter)
[00:18:16] Bob: I am sure you are cuter than you think.
[00:18:20] Cathy Junior: We are.
[00:18:23] Bob: It sounds like you love your husband very much.
[00:18:25] Cathy Junior: He is pretty special, yeah.
[00:18:37] Cathy Junior: Yeah, one a time.
That just seems so cruel to me what they were having you do.
[00:18:59] Bob: So I asked Cathy, would she ever look online for a job again?
Now if they had openings, I might consider working with them.
[00:19:19] Bob: Got it, yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense, of course.
[00:19:20] Cathy Junior: But I don’t need to now.
[00:19:23] Bob: Cathy did fill out a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
[00:19:27] Cathy Junior: I filled out the online form.
When I did that, they said they, they would inform all law enforcement that they needed to.
[00:19:34] Bob: And how did she feel about the whole experience now?
You wash it off, you move on.
[00:19:45] Bob: I like that.
I, that’s why here in this facility we’re in, that’s what I do.
I’m an ambassador in this facility.
Because I care about people and I want to help where I can.
[00:20:09] Bob: That’s really nice.
I’m sure it’s really hard when people move in there, right?
[00:20:19] Bob: Yeah.
[00:20:20] Cathy Junior: It’s hard.
[00:20:21] Bob: Yeah.
[00:20:22] Cathy Junior: And, and so it’s my job to help them.
[00:20:25] Bob: Well that’s really lovely.
[00:20:30] Cathy Junior: Yep, that’s why I watch their electronics.
[00:20:34] Bob: Good for you.
You’re doing quite a service there.
Cathy was the victim of a reshipping scam.
To talk more about the evolution of reshipping scams, we have Melissa Lanning here.
She is Executive Director of the Better Business Bureau Institute of Marketplace Trust.
She was pretty disturbed by Cathy’s story.
[00:21:49] Melissa Lanning: Yeah.
I mean like this is what I’m waiting for.
[00:22:05] Melissa Lanning: Yes, and if you’re, and here’s the other thing.
They wanted the job to pay their rent and to get their family in a better situation.
So, so yeah.
[00:22:39] Bob: An emotional roller coaster.
Looking for a job is certainly that.
Instances like this are being reported to the, to the BBB constantly.
We’re seeing this a lot.
I think it really blew up during the, the pandemic because everyone needed those work from home jobs.
So it’s unfortunate.
And the number one reason was I really wanted to work remotely.
I’ll let her explain.
[00:24:41] Melissa Lanning: We are seeing scammers impersonate real businesses, and that is really unfortunate.
You have to connect the dots.
So unfortunately, I see this situation a lot in our scam reports.
[00:27:29] Bob: Gosh, that’s terrible.
Reshipping scams are, you know, as old as the internet.
The cover story is just more elaborate.
They’re all sort of combined together, right?
[00:27:55] Melissa Lanning: They are.
[00:28:04] Bob: And it’s important to understand just how relentless these criminals can be.
So it’s really unfortunate.
It feels legitimate, right, this whole situation.
It’s like, again, it’s about that building the trust with that person.
[00:29:42] Melissa Lanning: Yes.
Yes, it is.
And the other thing I wanted to mention too on this is the payment scheme also shifts constantly.
So um, job scams used to be very much connected to fake check scams.
Now that’s an overpayment scam.
So they’re also changing that up, that situation a whole lot too.
That’s the biggest red flag of all.
That’s a reshipping scam.
But here are a few other warning signs to watch for.
So they want to switch communications to another platform; that’s a huge red flag.
So know that that right there is something you should probably stop and really spend some time doing research.
If they’re interviewing you and it’s, sometimes they’re not even interviewing you.
They’re barely asking some questions and suddenly you got the job.
So if you get the job really fast, that’s a huge red flag as well.
There are some scammers that’ll take the time to do research on Zoom.
The other thing, like I said earlier, is, is really track down an official job description.
verify that they send it to you.
So ensure it’s a real business, but like I said, there’s impersonations as well.
It should be listed somewhere.
Another red flag I wanted to mention is very vague job descriptions.
[00:33:27] Melissa Lanning: Secret shoppers is another really great example that we see a lot.
So you want to take all the necessary steps to protect yourself, um, in the future.
[00:35:17] Bob: That’s a really important point.
So be alert for that.
So I asked Melissa, are these online job platforms doing enough to fight fraud?
[00:35:38] Melissa Lanning: Yeah, that’s a tough question.
Have they done enough?
I, I don’t know.
I don’t know if they have.
And so I, I don’t know if they have.
I, I think all, more can always be done.
So I would say, I know there’s things that they’re trying to do.
Do we need them to do more?
Yes, I, I think they definitely.
Even if you haven’t lost money or personal information to this thing.
We share all of our, our data with FTC.
you’ve got the option to report it directly to FTC.
you’re free to also report it to IC3, which is the FBI.
[00:37:42] Melissa Lanning: Yes, like do so.
[00:37:43] Bob: I mean, really mechanically, how do they do that?
[00:37:46] Melissa Lanning: So you go to BBB.org/scamtracker.
And you would just fill out a form.
You open it up and it will ask you some questions about what you saw.
This is happening to a lot of people.
[00:39:19] Bob: For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch internet Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
