The recent surge can be traced to several post-pandemic factors that make these crimes even easier for criminals.
Job Hunting?
We can’t wait to have you join our team.
And the email and the website seemed legit.
I looked at it, it was up, it seemed real.
I was very impressed.
But I was also alerted, I was alarmed, like why are they picking me?
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:50] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
[00:00:54] Bob: This episode is a bit of an alert.
So we wanted to bring this story to you quickly.
I learned a lot.
It was working for a recruiter that worked for Apple, and we placed contract workers at Apple.
And then the downturn continued so it became completely clear that another round of layoffs were coming.
So I started looking for a position at the end of March of 2023.
And quickly, one opportunity catches her eye.
It was supposed to be 1375 a week.
[00:03:34] Anastasia Pleasant: Have you worked at home before?
Do you have a computer?
[00:03:42] Bob: She sends in her answers.
There’s a quick virtual interview and within days, she gets another email with good news.
[00:03:56] Anastasia Pleasant: “Oh, thank you for your patience.
We can’t wait to have you join our team.
And it, the email and the website seemed legit.
I looked at it, it was up, it seemed real.
And I said, “Yes.”
And she said, “Me too.”
So there was, it was 10 of us.
[00:05:44] Bob: Oh boy.
[00:05:45] Anastasia Pleasant: So.
Her new employer wants her to start right away and she gets her first task immediately.
And I put the money in the account.
[00:07:17] Bob: Soon Anastasia’s bank credits her account for the check she has deposited.
And I didn’t get it.
[00:07:41] Bob: She doesn’t get a compute.
But that’s not all.
She’s down $3800.
She gets in touch with her boss right away.
[00:08:09] Anastasia Pleasant: I called him, I said, “What is going on?”
He said, “Oh, Anatasia, we’re going to check that that we rectify this.
I can’t believe it.
I’m embarrassed to work here.”
[00:08:20] Bob: He might be embarrassed, but Anastasia is starting to really worry.
[00:08:36] Anastasia Pleasant: The wires went through and the checks bounced.
They all happened really quick.
[00:08:41] Bob: Did you get an email from the bank?
How did you find out the checks bounced?
[00:08:45] Anastasia Pleasant: I didn’t anything from the bank.
I found out just by looking at my bank account online.
[00:08:54] Anastasia Pleasant: Yep.
[00:08:55] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:08:56] Anastasia Pleasant: You’d think that the bank would get in touch with you.
[00:09:13] Bob: It’s a crazy time for Anastasia.
[00:09:34] Bob: This just sounds like such an intense time for you.
(chuckles)
[00:09:46] Bob: The total she’d cashed was more than $20,000.
Each time her account was credited the amount of the check, then the credit was reversed.
And then, the bank took cash out of her account to cover the wire.
But that is more than she had in her checking account.
So the bank starts looking to recover its money another way.
Anatasia’s terrified, but also confused.
I said, “But it looked like it cleared.”
And they said, “Well that doesn’t matter.”
[00:11:21] Anastasia Pleasant: Right.
[00:11:35] Anastasia Pleasant: Yes.
[00:11:38] Bob: Anastasia goes to the police, but it’s too late.
And then the financial implications start to become clear.
A cascade of bad things start to happen.
I only had like a couple thousand dollars in there.
[00:12:44] Bob: Hmm.
Pay, pay the utility bills.
[00:13:21] Bob: Ugh…
[00:13:22] Anastasia Pleasant: Yep.
The bank starts sending her collection notices for the negative balance.
[00:13:33] Anastasia Pleasant: Oh yes.
Today’s been a great day, or yesterday.
PNC is going after me for the money that they took out of my account with a collection service.
[00:14:18] Bob: Oh my God!
[00:14:20] Anastasia Pleasant: Yep.
[00:14:21] Bob: But what is, how much is the collection notice for?
And now they’re saying that the one I got, oh, discounted amount.
They’re going down to like 5 grand.
And I have not responded to these collection service notices, I just ignore them.
So I had to go into a debt consolidation program.
[00:15:48] Anastasia Pleasant: It makes you stop believing in yourself.
Everything that you’ve worked for for your entire life is gone.
I felt like such a failure.
How did I let that happen to myself?
I’m not stupid in, in my head.
I’m like, how did that happen?
It’s not like I’m not aware.
But it happened, and you know it’s affected every part of my life.
Definitely has affected every part of my life.
I’m not the same person that I was before, Bob.
[00:16:26] Bob: Oh God.
It does affect every part of your life.
And I’m living with him, and this happens to me.
He lost all faith in me.
Second guessing everything I do.
I have to believe that I’m going to move forward and things are going to be okay.
PNC’s going after me for money.
I’m like, oh my God!
Am I going to be, do I have to declare bankruptcy over this?
That’s where I was last week.
I re-filed a complaint with the FBI.
I’m talking with you today.
This is almost a year later.
I, I, I just might have to.
That breaks my heart.
I never thought I would have to face that.
[00:18:50] Bob: Anastasia does eventually find another job, but it isn’t easy.
[00:18:57] Bob: How long did it take before you found another job?
[00:18:59] Anastasia Pleasant: August 24th is when I started.
[00:19:02] Bob: Wow, so all summer, all spring, all summer.
[00:19:03] Anastasia Pleasant: Yep.
It was a very painful summer.
[00:19:09] Bob: But she’s still trying to keep her chin up.
You know working for people who love me and I love them, and let’s make it happen.
Gotta move on.
I’m finally at the point, I’m ready to move on from the depression and awfulness.
[00:19:35] Bob: Ready to move on from the depression and awfulness.
It’s not easy and it’s not uncommon.
As we mentioned at the start of this episode, reports of job scams are exploding.
Our next guest is on the other side of this scam.
He’s a different kind of victim.
Is this legit or is this fraud?
[00:21:02] Bob: So how does he find out?
He applies for a job at his own company.
[00:21:09] Ryan Staller: And what happened was is that I decided to play the game.
I am looking for this job, I am interested.
What is the next steps?”
Do you have a computer, what kind of computer do you have?
Are you capable of, you know, using Photoshop?
What experience do you have?
yo…” And some of the questions got really into detail.
“Tell us about your web development experience.
Do you have the ability to do this?
Yes or no.'
It was very involved.
But it really was insulting because it wasn’t as involved as what we do, right?
We’re going to send you a form so we can get your banking information for direct deposit.
Okay, and, and I stopped it, obviously I didn’t do that.
And then the call dropped and they blocked me on Google Chat.
They essentially were stealing his domain, or at least domains that looked like his.
So they were literally just using it as an email address.
They had a logo on the job description, I mean the job description’s fully detailed.
I was very impressed.
But I was also alerted, I was alarmed, like why are they picking me?
Were you nervous at all about that?
[00:24:03] Ryan Staller: I was nervous, I started going to my bank account.
No, I mean there’s two things.
Once I realized that my money was safe, I was happy.
And what I did was I actually, they bought all the domains through HostGator.
[00:25:01] Bob: But for many people, it was too late.
Ryan figures hundreds of victims interacted with the criminals.
[00:25:21] Bob: That’s crazy.
I mean, first of all, you go from a trickle to a, a small flood.
[00:25:33] Ryan Staller: Oh yeah.
And I was like, “I have no idea really what you’re talking about.”
I will take care of everything.
Just let me know what I need to do to help you.
[00:26:29] Bob: He spoke to a second victim too.
Both said they wired about $2000 to their new employer.
That sounds like a really uncomfortable, unfair experience.
[00:26:55] Ryan Staller: Yes, especially the one woman who was yelling at me.
She didn’t believe me.
She was yelling at me saying, “I’m going to call the police on you.
Give me my money.”
Um, that was painful.
But really at the point my biggest thought was, is my brand here in jeopardy?
And what do I need to do?
How do I need to fix this going forward?
Is this something I need to rebrand?
Time is going to let it go away.
They shut them down.
Do not,” you know, “we’re not hiring at this time.”
And once I did that, within 48 hours, it stopped.
[00:28:09] Bob: The website warning seemed to work.
And plus, we’re redoing the website which will launch very soon.
So then we can take it away.
But for about a period of 10 days, it was a total nightmare.
I, for about a good 24 hours I was always thinking about what was going to happen?
Are people going to come after me?
Was law enforcement going to come at my door?
What is going to happen?
And I thank you for that.
If you’ve been a victim of a crime, c’mon contact local law enforcement."
So uh, but on behalf of everybody, thank you for doing that.
[00:29:28] Bob: What did Ryan learn from this experience?
They need to do their homework.
They need to take a look at the URL where the email’s coming from.
throw in in that URL into a website.
If there’s no website, that’s a flag.
If it’s only text, that’s a flag.
[00:29:58] Ryan Staller: Don’t panic.
Because I made the mistake of almost going down the road of panicking.
I’m going to figure everything out.
And that’s what I did.
And I said time will tell.
It’s upsetting, but don’t panic.
[00:30:41] Bob: That’s true, yeah, yeah.
Perspective is really helpful in all these situations.
[00:30:46] Ryan Staller: Perspective is everything to me.
That they’re, they’re all scams.
Now you’ve got to be afraid to open up an email.
Just be very careful.
(laugh)
[00:33:50] Bob: And good luck.
Don’t we all need that?
[00:33:52] Anastasia Pleasant: Oh, my goodness.
[00:35:13] Bob: She’s seen the data about skyrocketing scams too.
[00:36:03] Carly Roszkowski: Yes.
[00:36:20] Carly Roszkowski: Yes, you’re correct.
[00:36:41] Bob: I asked Carly to talk about the kinds of scams AARP is seeing.
Others that we’ve seen, personal assistant, or virtual remote assistant.
We also tell consumers to be cautious if there is a personal email address associated with any job posting.
Uh they’re offering high pay for little work.
And language that says it’s a surefire business opportunity that will pay out quickly.
[00:38:28] Bob: So what can people do to protect themselves?
That can create an opening for criminals.
Look at the email address if you’re getting correspondence from that person who’s writing to you.
For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch online grid Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
