It really destroys their life.
So, every day that.
Their life is being destroyed.
So there’s a lot of pressure to have a go at get it done.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:35] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
When we left our story, Dollars From Hell, we left Mary Marr.
She had slipped through the hands of law enforcement again and again.
A red notice issued for her wasn’t working.
[00:01:28] Justin Deutsch: Mary had joined this kind of elite organization.
It’s called the Sovereign Order of Malta.
It’s also called the Knights of Malta.
[00:01:37] Bob: That’s Homeland Security Investigations agent Justin Deutch.
He’s the one chasing Mary Marr.
We met him in part one of this series, so The Knights of Malta?
But a lot of different countries in Europe do recognize them.
They gave her that title, so she was Dame Mary Marr.
[00:02:52] Bob: Dame Mary Marr of the Knights of Malta.
The wanted criminal being chased around the world by US authorities.
The diplomatic passport can be very powerful.
Countries intimidated by the diplomatic status and often won’t arrest somebody that’s a diplomat.
[00:03:32] Bob: Fitting of who Mary Marr was, she really enjoys having an impressive title.
Her dad ran one in Spain.
She’d been cashing checks for boiler rooms for many years when an Agent Deutsch started chasing after her.
So she, she didn’t.
I think that was the original motivation.
He’s been chasing Mary since his investigation into her boiler room contracts began in 2016.
And right now, he’s stuck.
And this goes on for six months.
It’s causing Justin to lose sleep.
They’re, you know, just, they remind me of my parents a lot of times.
And they’re not, they’re not dumb people.
People have worked their whole life and saved up their money, and now they’ve lost it all.
It really destroys their life.
So every day that you’re not making an arrest.
You’re not doing something.
Their life is being destroyed.
So there’s a lot of pressure to take a stab at get it done.
But unfortunately, just the nature of these international cases take a very long time.
[00:06:32] Bob: And remember, all this time, Justin is still gathering evidence.
So he knows exactly what they are doing.
[00:06:46] Dramatized Male Voice: Hey, think about this.
Right now, wires will be coming from England to Jefferson Bank and TD Bank in consortium solutions accounts.
Now picture this, money received internationally to Jefferson and TD banks is wired through a domestic wire.
or deposited with a check into a third bank in the USA.
Jefferson and TD Bank won’t be suspicious as the money is going in the US.
The third bank with a different business name will not be wiring the money offshore.
The third bank may not be as suspicious as the money wired offshore originated in the USA.
[00:07:37] Bob: So, he keeps gathering evidence, keeps losing sleep.
The Serbian authorities were great.
They acted right away on our request.
They used some technology to figure out where her phone was at and I think was very fitting.
[00:08:13] Bob: She was in a nail salon.
[00:08:15] Justin Deutsch: Yep.
[00:08:18] Bob: The Dame of Malta arrested Getting her hair and nails done.
[00:08:23] Bob: You’re in this for almost two and a half years at this point.
[00:08:26] Justin Deutsch: Yes.
Explain that to people.
[00:08:36] Justin Deutsch: So when you do actually take somebody down, it’s very satisfying.
They’re very difficult investigations, especially the international ones.
So these types of fraudsters, they get very cocky.
They think they’re the smartest person in the room.
They think they’re never going to get caught.
They flaunt their money and their wealth.
So it is, it’s satisfying knowing that they’re going to see justice.
[00:09:09] Bob: But Mary Marr’s arrest.
Isn’t the end, it’s more like the end of the beginning.
So we’ve only made a few arrests at that point.
We had other people targeted that we knew worked for her.
So we took kind of a two-step approach.
Let’s take down the other money launderers that were working for her.
And then let’s start working towards identifying and charging the people that Mary was laundering money for.
So these are the people that are going to be in the call centers overseas.
It can be difficult to identify these people and to charge them.
But that was our next course of action.
And we had some success with that.
[00:10:07] Bob: Success with that, this time, takes Justin to Thailand.
One of her biggest clients was a man named Brooks Nesbitt.
He’s a Canadian guy.
He was operating boiler rooms out of Thailand.
She had been laundering money for him for years.
Marr - Let’s get going.
Nesbitt - Me too.
My expenses are killing me.
Any way I can help get the deals moving?
And later, Nesbitt - Send the dough directly to me at this account.
I got all the cards ready.
Marr - What’s the company email?
Nesbitt - Info at AlliedSecuritiesCorporation.
And even later, Nesbitt - I’m expecting a big week next week with this victim.
And my other guy here at at least $150,000 plus.
[00:11:57] Justin Deutsch: And Nesbit was, uh, also an interesting story.
He grew up in Canada, kind of similar to Mary at a young age.
He was recruited for a job overseas.
He didn’t quite know what it was, but it ended up being a boiler room job.
So we eventually charged him in 2020 and I got to fly to Thailand and observe the arrest.
Of course, when I’m in Thailand, I have no authority.
So that was a really cool experience.
[00:13:07] Bob: But to really take down the entire connection, they need Mary’s help.
So a proffer is, they agree to tell the truth about all of their involvement.
We agree to not charge them on further crimes based on what they say to us.
So, she’s sitting in prison.
So we used some of what we told her to further our investigation.
Just interviewing somebody for a few hours in there and I’m ready to get out.
But it’s, you know, it’s a very humbling experience for them, right?
And kind of similar methods, we were able to identify a husband and wife duo.
Tracy and Jeff Jedlicki, they lived in South Florida and operated Boiler Room in Panama.
So Jeff Jedlicki was overseas in Panama being a sales agent and helping to spin up the office.
And another business partner they worked with, we ended up charging him as well.
So in 2021, we arrested.
Uh, three more people that were boiler room workers.
[00:17:25] Bob: And this all leads to a series of convictions.
Everybody in the case except for one person ended up pleading guilty.
So at the end of the day, we ended up indicting and arresting 13 subjects.
12 pled guilty, one went to trial.
Like I said, Mary received 14 years in prison.
Michelle Chateau, 10 years.
Brooks Nesbitt from Thailand, got 10 years.
Jeff Jedlicki, that was working out of Panama, he got 10 years.
So there were some significant sentences.
As far as assets go, we were able to seize 28 bank accounts.
Another subject home in Atlanta.
This is a very wide case.
The final piece to wrap up is to make a run at return some of that money to victims.
That’s not so easy.
[00:19:48] Justin Deutsch: We seized all of the personal possessions of Mary.
That was kind of interesting.
It turned out to be something like 25 or 30 containers full of all of her stuff.
worth anybody’s time.
And I, of course, have no experience in any of this stuff.
But we ended up seizing a lot of stuff from there and selling it at auction.
So at the end of the day, we had about 5 million worth of assets that we seized.
And the good thing is every penny that we seize will go back to the victims.
The government doesn’t keep any of it.
[00:21:56] Bob: Uh, five million dollars, that includes the property, right?
[00:22:31] Justin Deutsch: Yep.
[00:22:33] Bob: $20,000 couch.
Um, people live different lives.
[00:22:49] Justin Deutsch: Yep, definitely.
[00:22:50] Bob: Fun consulting gig.
[00:22:52] Bob: Why does it take so long for Mary to be sentenced?
So a lot of times the government will agree to delay their sentencing.
She’s still sitting in prison.
[00:23:23] Bob: Okay.
[00:23:35] Justin Deutsch: Yeah, so whenever somebody’s charged, that’s part of it.
[00:25:33] Andy Smith: It was unbelievable.
And then it’s kind of a decision tree.
Interpol, at least at that time, wasn’t, you know, knocking down any doors.
It’s hard for me to fathom.
[00:27:07] Bob: Why do boiler room scams persist?
Why is this scam so effective for criminals?
to make everything else fall into line.
[00:28:39] Bob: A shred of truth.
And so they were trying to drag people along a continuum where they would invest more and more.
But the fact that these websites were so elaborate, I find that kind of remarkable.
You know, these are not common con artists.
There was a tremendous amount of thought, premeditation, and planning that went into this.
What do you think about that?
This is what people have been talking with me about.
What do you think about this?
An easy question to ask the person on the other end is, are you a fiduciary?
Are you legally obligated?
Now, anybody can say that, right?
[00:32:08] Bob: Always ask questions.
Even if the broker is someone who’s been recommended by a friend or who you think you know?
You know, why would I listen to you?
I want them to look at me.
I want them to research me, look at my background and everything else.
If somebody’s talking with you and says, oh, don’t worry about that.
What’s the matter?
Don’t you trust me?
I thought that we were friends, all of these different things.
Look, we can be friends, but you have to do your due diligence.
You have to figure out who this is on the other side.
[00:33:08] Bob: So do your research.
Remember, Mary Marr’s band of criminals actually made fake regulator websites.
So even some victims who tried to do their due diligence were led astray.
[00:33:54] Andy Smith: You’re absolutely right.
I am on the board of directors for the local Better Business Bureau here in Indianapolis.
And every kind of holiday season, there’s all of these different charity scams.
[00:35:11] Andy Smith: BrokerCheck is probably the best place to start.
From there, there’s any number of other issues or other, other.
And how do people find BrokerCheck?
So go on, you know, use your internet, you know, web search of choice.
So you could search by individual, you could search by firm.
That’s gonna be a great place for you to start.
For a lot of people.
Or again, just pick up the phone.
Call somebody that you do know, that you do trust, and start this conversation together.
[00:37:39] Bob: And if you’re already in the middle of a broker relationship.
And you’re worried you’re dealing with a criminal?
If that’s the case, it’s okay, right?
Call people, call somebody that you might trust to start working through this process.
[00:39:21] Bob: I think that’s really important advice.
When you realize you’re in the middle of these things, it can be very, very hard.
And we talk a lot on this podcast about the role that shame plays in victimization.
[00:39:40] Andy Smith: Yeah, you’re absolutely right.
There’s, there’s guilt and then there’s shame.
Shame prevents people from doing things that need to be done.
And so venture to find ways to work through that.
And, you know, from there, just keep asking, keep asking, keep asking questions.
confirm that you’re understanding what it is that’s being put in front of you.
[00:40:35] Bob: ensure you understand what’s being put in front of you.
And ask for help from a trusted third party, that’s always good advice.
So, so what might that be?
And it is really, really benefiting the fraudsters.
They are making a killing.
Don’t do business with a company that you don’t know 110 percent is an established reputable company.
Meet somebody face to face before you do business.
A lot of times, these victims, they might have a hundred grand into it so far.
And when you ask them, maybe at the end of the day, they lost a million.
So that, that would be my advice to avoid falling prey to these bang out of scams.
[00:42:34] Justin Deutsch: Absolutely.
And like you mentioned, shame and embarrassment is absolutely everybody I interview.
And it’s, you know, people always say, how could I be so dumb?
How could I let this happen to myself?
Um, and you know, you’re, you’re not alone.
There’s, in this case alone, there are thousands of victims.
So you don’t need to feel alone or embarrassed.
There’s, there’s a lot of people have gone through the same thing.
[00:43:16] Bob: And there’s one more thing.
Justin is pretty sure this won’t be his last massive international crime ring investigation.
It’s not going away.
It’s, it’s a, and it’s because the fraudsters are international by nature.
People can also go to the Internet Crime Complaint Center at ic3.gov.
They are, one, decide now to decide later.
Never invest in something the first time you hear about it.
Two, check with regulators and other third parties.
Use FINRA and the other sites we’ve mentioned to look for signs something is wrong.
Three, research the promoter.
Specifically search for the person’s name or the company’s name to look for complaints.
Four, don’t give second chances.
Just keep answering no, just keep hanging up.
And finally, remain vigilant.
A criminal boiler room call can come at any time.
So, remain vigilant.
There’s also a special toll-free securities helpline for seniors at 844-57-helps.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch internet Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
