[00:00:03] Bob: I mean just the depth of the kinds of fraud.
This is like they were running a, like a big mega-mall of fraud or something.
[00:00:11] Katie Robison: I think web link is the better word.
It’s just crazy.
It’s just like this whole fraud ecosystem.
There’s so many people that it takes to make these schemes work.
[00:00:29] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
Today we’re taking you to a small pastoral college town in western West Virginia.
So far west it’s right on the Kentucky border.
A great movie, “We Are Marshall” starring Matthew McConaughey tells that story.
Huntington has suffered other tragedies too; it’s been called the epicenter of America’s opioid addiction crisis.
[00:01:40] Huntington, West Virginia, is a college town.
It’s where Marshall University is located at.
It sits on the banks of the Ohio River.
If you’ve ever watched the movie, “We Are Marshall” it’s featured prominently in that.
It’s very close a border city; it borders both Ohio and Kentucky within three to four miles.
[00:02:041:41] Oh, Iit’s a really cute town.
It’s a college town.
So there’s a lot of good restaurants there, and then it’s pretty lively.
Unfortunately, Huntington’s also been struggling with the opioid crisis a lot during recent years.
But you know the community’s really banded together, and there’s definitely a sense of community there.
[00:02:4019] Katie Robison: I’ve been with the DOJ since 2016.
[00:02:5128] Bob: What drew you to this kind of work?
They had all been sending deposits to this one woman.
[00:03:4831] Katie Robison: I was really shocked.
At least some of it ultimately headed to Nigeria?
So Katie and her team start investigating.
First through bank records and then through interviews.
[00:04:5446] Bob: This group of young men who were also laundering funds for Huntington.
The stories the criminals told the victims to get them to send money ran the gamut.
[00:05:2517] Katie Robison: They’ll develop this whole fake persona.
For example, one person pretended he was a man named Martin Baum.
He falls in love with multiple women, Hhe says that he’s working overseas.
I think he may have been some engineer that was working on a boat.
Often people will say they’re an oil rig worker.
[00:06:2318] Katie Robison: Oh yes, exactly.
This money is not actually going to Blake Shelton for his fan club.
So it can, it can be really hard investigating these.
[00:07:3429] Bob: I mean just the depth of the kinds of fraud.
This is like they were running a, like a big mega-mall of fraud or something.
[00:07:4338] Katie Robison: Oh, for sure.
Um, it’s really, I think internet is the better word.
It’s just crazy.
It’s just like this whole fraud ecosystem.
There’s so many people that it takes to make these schemes work.
That’s where money mules come in.
She might be so brave as to do that.
Someone like our young men in Huntington.
And that’s why the scheme is able to keep going and going and going.
[00:09:173] Bob: So why Huntington?
And so you know their role was important letting the scheme go on undetected for so long.
[00:09:561] Bob: That makes a lot of sense.
[00:10:0109:57] Katie Robison: Exactly.
[00:10:072] Katie Robison: Yeah, yeah, they are, that’s an important part.
[00:11:493] Bob: Remember, Katie is new to her job and she works in West Virginia.
She does not expect to be hunting after an international crime ring in a nearby college town.
But within a few months, the big day comes.
[00:12:151] Bob: What was the big break in the case?
And so we did.
[00:13:1207] Bob: I’m sure there’s an awful lot of preparation for that.
[00:13:1409] Katie Robison: Oh my God, yes.
We also had one defendant who we just couldn’t find at first.
You know, “just give us a call.”
Come on in.”
[00:14:535] Katie Robison: Yes.
And they’re arrested for participating in this elaborate set of internet-based crimes.
The one-on-one interviews are illuminating.
I mean, What kind of feeling did you get when talking you talked to them?
[00:16:2314] Bob: How could they keep doing it?
Well, in some cases, these students studying far from home, they feel intense pressure from home.
[00:16:433] Bob: Did any of them get emotional during your conversations?
[00:17:323] Katie Robison: It, it really is.
Some of them I knew from my state court experience.
What seemed remarkable about it was that the sheer size of it, the geographic outreach.
[00:18:532] William Johnson: I was, I was very surprised.
And like I said, a lot of the perpetrators were international students.
Some of, some of them do have ties to Marshall University.
They were very educated, very bright.
Unfortunately, they were taking advantage of those skills to perpetrate these frauds.
[00:19:043] Bob: So the investigation and prosecution are both unusual.
[00:19:098:58] William Johnson: We had one cooperated very quickly when uh he was first approached.
Got to meet with him.
He is what led us to a lot of the people that were involved.
Very, a very bright individual.
You would not think of him of being a international fraudster.
[00:19:303] William Johnson: I think he downplayed it a little bit how he was caught up.
He profited off of doing this.
He was making money while he was committing this crime.
[00:20:004] William Johnson: They were both.
And it was because they had access to US banks, so they could open up a bank account.
I mean you would expect that.
You know, it just happens.
It was money that was not something that a college student would be sending back to their family.
These weren’t hardened criminals.
On the other hand, they did some terrible things to innocent people.
And they’re not in the stage of life where they could replenish that.
That was really particularly heartbreaking.
I mean I’ve got older parents of my own, and um, I worry about them.
But these weren’t violent criminals.
Even that first woman we discussed.
[00:22:19:23] Katie Robison: She was indicted and she eventually pled guilty and was prosecuted.
Is, is that something you’ve seen before?
[00:23:159] Katie Robison: It, it is.
Which one is this, do you think?
So which one was this do you think?
Stop moving this money.
Stop sharing your bank information.
[00:24:109] Bob: That’s really sad actually.
[00:24:1220] Katie Robison: It, it is incredibly sad.
[00:24:5825:06] Katie Robison: One went to trial.
It was this past summer, and it lasted about a week.
[00:25:0312] Bob: And as you mentioned, lots of papers, lots of details, right?
Other victims of the false personas included residents of Ohio and Florida.
The son of former lawmaker in Ghana, Inusah faces up to 50 years in prison.
As of this recording, he’s not been sentenced yet.
[00:26:4958] Bob: So what did it feel like when you got convictions in this case?
[00:26:537:00] Katie Robison: It was a good feeling.
It can be hard.
Like they just don’t get very long jail sentences.
You know, that’s just a fact of life unfortunately.
[00:27:3847] Bob: But the case is not completely satisfying.
[00:27:420] William Johnson: Not really.
He has provided, you know, really extraordinary cooperation.
[00:28:599:10] Bob: Wow.
[00:29:0011] Katie Robison: Yeah, he really has gone above and beyond.
[00:29:2940] Bob: I’m, I’m so glad you brought that up.
That’s a, that’s a twist I wasn’t expecting.
That must be really powerful.
[00:29:4355] Katie Robison: Yeah, that’s, that’s what we would think.
This is what you should look for and just be aware.
But this story shows these kinds of crimes are worth prosecuting.
[00:30:1426] Bob: So this investigation in some sense is ongoing?
[00:30:1728] Katie Robison: Um, in some sense.
[00:30:2435] Katie Robison: Yeah, I guess I would say that.
[00:30:3243] Bob: And you’re doing other things, I’m sure.
[00:30:3445] Katie Robison: Yeah.
Like I don’t want to be involved in this.
And hopefully that puts a dent in these fraud schemes.
So I hope you are able to hang onto that through your career, it’s a tough career.
[00:32:0010] Katie Robison: Thank you, I appreciate that.
That’s very nice to hear.
[00:32:4254] Bob: William also has strong feelings about what he wants people to know.
Unfortunately, these people target a population that’s a little bit older but more trusting.
“Are you sure, why are you sending money to this person?”
Like I said, these people are very gifted, are very talented.
You’ve got to ask yourself is why no one ever wants to do a live video chat.
One thing we learned in COVID, is everybody in the world can do video chats now.
[00:34:455:03] William Johnson: Look at changes in behavior.
Look if they start talking about Bob and nobody knows who Bob is or never met a Bob.
You know, ask questions.
Don’t be afraid.
So you’ve got to pay attention to that.
You know, simple changes in behavior, simple staying up all night to talk on the internet.
Things of that nature pay attention to and ask why.
You know, and some of them could be great.
and to satisfy their greed.
[00:35:4853] William Johnson: And they did.
They made substantial amounts of money at it.
It was, I mean it was easy money.
We actually had some younger victims who were part of this.
[00:37:1026] William Johnson: Unfortunately, no, because theres a lot of it that goes on.
[00:37:3148] William Johnson: My guess is it probably is.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch data pipe Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
