Learn how Maimons research warns of emerging trends and how consumers canprotect themselves.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:05] You’ve reached the Open Up S Channel.
My name is Sanchez.
Yes, I sell Chase bank accounts.
Yes, I am one of the first people who started to sell bank accounts four years ago.
But actively working in this field began in 2022.
[00:00:27] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
But you’ve probably never been to the Dark Web until today.
David Maimon spends a lot of time there conducting research at Georgia State University.
Here at The Perfect Scam we wanted to dive a little bit deeper into the Dark Web with David.
It’s all because of what David calls the greatest heist in history.
You know the greatest heist of all time.
[00:02:51] Bob: Youre probably heard a lot about scams that made the rounds during Covid times.
Many targeted consumers, but government agencies were targeted too.
So now we have to deal with the fallout from that, right?
That’s the world we’re dealing with now.
And that’s why the rate of scams seems to be exploding.
David wasn’t always a cybersecurity expert; he actually began his career in sociology.
What do you bring from your sociology background that helps you in cybersecurity do you think?
We simply learn as you walk.
David is its Director.
The majority of the internet though is what we call uh the Deep Web.
The Deep Web is essentially submerged, right, in deep water.
It requires folks with specific software here to access it.
[00:07:19] Bob: Why do we call it Dark?
[00:08:20] Bob: So operating in the dark as it were.
[00:08:23] David Maimon: Exactly.
You’re completely anonymous, very difficult to track uh who you are and where you are.
They can sell hacking tools, they can open forums where they discuss all pop in of illegal activities.
[00:09:53] Bob: But time out.
The Dark Web isn’t just about crime.
There are plenty of people who want, or who need anonymity to do their very important work.
And other folks who use the, the Deep Web so that engage in legitimate activities.
Get into the Dark Web?
You need specific technology so that uh access it.
[00:11:40] David Maimon: Very simple to access it.
Very much similar to using the Clear Net, regular internet as, as we are currently using it.
[00:12:07] Bob: So your team monitors this Dark Web?
What are some of the illegal activities folks are engaging in, uh this month.
Who are some of the targets the criminals are essentially trying to victimize?
You will see on the ad the prices of the commodity.
Rip you off and sort of take your money and run away with it.
[00:16:12] Bob: Look at a hotel room or something.
[00:16:13] David Maimon: Exactly, yeah.
[00:16:14] Bob: Wow.
David shared this clip with us.
[00:17:02] (clip) You’ve reached the Open Up S Channel.
My name is Sanchez.
Yes, I sell Chase bank accounts.
Yes, I am one of the first people who started to sell bank accounts four years ago.
But actively working in this field began in 2022.
We started with my partner four years ago.
Now we are about 30 people in one office.
I will answer a couple of questions.
Buyers ask where I disappeared.
In fact, I did not go anywhere.
I am still with you.
At the moment we are resting with the team because we worked for a year without breaks.
It was very difficult.
When is the next update?
I can’t say for sure.
But I’m sure it will be in the coming weeks.
We are preparing for (inaudible) Chase at a good price.
This is just the beginning.
Got my key right here, got the time right there.
Everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere.
And I got the slips right there, and my gun right there.
Hopefully, it makes sense, Bob.
And David’s team is there too.
So you know you’re able to engage uh with the customer uh in a more efficient manner.
[00:20:19] Bob: This move towards private chats has made David’s work a bit more tricky.
It’s almost made things more tricky for law enforcement.
[00:21:23] Bob: So now your challenge is to become a trusted member of these groups.
[00:23:07] David Maimon: Criminal thinks that my persona is deviant, yeah.
[00:23:20] David Maimon: It really depends.
Uh, it depends on your goals, it depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.
Did… is there a digital equivalent of that for you?
[00:24:08] David Maimon: Yeah, we’re seeing more and more of that happening.
Yeah, that makes things more complicated.
[00:25:04] Bob: And things don’t always go perfectly according to plan.
[00:25:50] Bob: I’m sure that was a learning experience.
[00:25:52] David Maimon: It was.
I mean we; we learned a lot.
[00:25:55] Bob: The student blew his digital cover so to speak.
Fortunately, that was a harmless mistake.
But I asked David, is his work ever dangerous?
[00:26:08] David Maimon: It depends.
I can say that it could definitely happen.
And that’s why you have to be extremely cautious when you’re there.
you gotta learn the ecosystem before you actually engage if you would like to engage.
[00:26:42] Bob: Has anything ever happened to you that’s felt dangerous?
[00:27:33] Bob: A criminal sent a debit card to your house?
So yeah, that happens as well.
[00:28:33] Bob: Wow, I’m, I’m sorry.
[00:28:38] David Maimon: Yeah, it wasn’t, it wasn’t pleasant.
[00:28:41] Bob: You probably have the same question I have right now.
What tools do and don’t work?
How does those two things connect?
[00:29:03] David Maimon: So remember, we talk about tools and we talk about policies.
And we also talk about law enforcement operations on the ecosystem.
Hopefully, that answered the question.
[00:31:24] Bob: Yeah, that’s really interesting.
So that, that doesn’t do the trick.
So in terms of disruption, those takedowns doesn’t really disrupt the ecosystem unfortunately.
[00:32:46] Bob: Naturally, I asked David what he tells law enforcement to do instead.
And perhaps you won’t be surprised to hear that he demurred.
He doesn’t want to tip his hand to the criminals.
The tools are just easier to come by now and frankly, crime pays right now.
Many of our identities are being used by local actors.
I’ve seen you use the word supply chain in the past.
It’s, it’s quite easy to perform it.
And it makes more sense to engage in fraud than selling drugs on the other hand.
And, and then risking your life standing on the street doing this kind of activity.
[00:35:17] Bob: Committing fraud is easier than selling drugs on the street.
And now we have to contend with a whole new set of criminals who learned their craft during COVID.
[00:35:43] David Maimon: That’s right.
[00:36:03] Bob: The next couple of years will be extremely challenging.
So, what is David’s advice to Perfect Scam listeners?
The identity theft protection plans are, are essentially very good flagging those issues.
And at this point in our society, I think this is something that everybody should, should do.
And the bank will definitely wrap up the account.
Thanks, I think, for the tour of the Dark Web, David.
For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
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Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
