[00:00:17] Uh, get $20,000.
[00:00:21] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
This is a two-part episode.
If you haven’t listened to the first part yet, you should go do that now.
She does know that she doesn’t have $20,000.
She has almost nothing left.
She tells him she doesn’t have any more cash.
We pick up the story there.
[00:01:40] Kate Kleinert: Tony continued to call me five or six times a day.
He said that the UN had demanded he, he have privileges.
[00:01:49] Bob: It is a confusing time.
Kate is surprised that Tony can call her.
It makes her wonder, but at the same time, she was in touch with his kids.
But whenever Tony calls, Kate just keeps telling him, she can’t get the money.
That she was sorry, but she has no way to help him.
Can you get me another card, because then I could get better food.
[00:02:30] Bob: That doesn’t quite sound right to Kate.
Can an inmate use a gift card to get better food in prison?
So she takes a risk the next time she talks to the lawyer.
That was the best I could do.
Well, that doesn’t make any sense either.
like don’t do this to me."
[00:03:55] Bob: Sure.
Well there, there is no way I was doing that.
And I thought he’s just pushing here to get something more out of me.
Um, can I go to, to my church and ask for money?
Well, I don’t do something like that with my family.
And I stopped answering his phone calls.
Why are you abandoning me?
I want to spend my life with you."
But there is one more phone call.
And he finally said he was in um, Jordan.
And I said, “And how did you get to Jordan?”
And I said, “It doesn’t work that way.
So not, you know, it, it all was crumbling at that point, so.
[00:06:08] Bob: And that’s the last time you talked to him?
[00:06:11] Kate Kleinert: Yes.
[00:06:20] Bob: It’s a very dark time.
Kate has to deal with the financial challenge of losing almost all her money.
By Christmas Day I was truly out of money, truly.
And I’ve never been at that point in my life before.
Not, not that devastatingly broke.
[00:09:16] Bob: God.
[00:09:27] Kate Kleinert: Oh, absolutely.
[00:09:33] Kate Kleinert: Yes, exactly.
[00:09:40] Kate Kleinert: Yeah, right.
[00:09:42] Bob: At rock bottom, Kate can’t feel more isolated, more lonely.
She stumbles through the COVID 2021 winter alone.
She keeps hiding this dark story from everyone, even her sisters.
[00:10:10] Bob: Who was the first person you were able to talk to about this?
And so I finally told her.
Yeah, she knew me well enough that she knew I was very sad.
It’s unthinkable at first.
How do you tell such a story?
But Kate hatches a plan.
A plan inspired by all those pandemic family Zoom gatherings thanks to her boss.
I’m not sick or anything.”
I thought I said that.
But I felt even worse when I found that out that I hadn’t put their mind at ease.
[00:12:01] Bob: The meeting invitation actually scared Susan, Kate’s sister.
[00:12:26] Bob: And, and probably very serious if it required a Zoom meeting.
[00:12:28] Susan Huber: Serious, exactly.
[00:12:35] Susan Huber: Just at home.
[00:12:56] Susan Huber: It, there wasn’t much time between the invitation and the meeting.
Um…
[00:13:11] Bob: But that meant you had to wait a week to find out?
[00:13:13] Susan Huber: Uh-hmm, yes.
Just thinking of the, the worst scenario.
Um, I knew it must be something serious if she was going to share it this way.
So what was your first reaction there?
But I was just aghast.
I, I mean I don’t think I could believe it at first.
I kept thinking this, this can’t be real.
How long did it take?
[00:14:44] Susan Huber: Um, probably not that long.
I would say maybe 15 or 20 minutes till she got it all out.
Um, she had trouble speaking during some of it.
[00:15:20] Bob: Kate is terrified of what their reaction will be.
And our youngest sister said, “Kate, you’re so courageous to share this with us.”
And none of us were blaming her for what happened.
[00:16:45] Bob: The support is overwhelming.
[00:16:48] Kate Kleinert: And they all said they were proud of me.
Which absolutely floored me.
So what are you proud of?
Look what I’ve done.
I’ve lost all my money.
How can you be proud?
But they were proud that I had the courage to step forward and tell them about it.
[00:17:05] Bob: Wow, that’s amazing.
[00:17:08] Kate Kleinert: It is.
It is, and more comforting than I can even explain.
Not what I expected.
[00:17:23] Bob: And was she relieved; I mean how, how did she react?
She just, you could tell that she was so relieved that she started to cry.
Um, she just kept saying, I can’t believe that’s what you’re saying.
How are you going to be doing tomorrow, and what can we do?
What can, what resources can we help you with?
What can we do?
I, I don’t know.
Um, the whole year of isolation with COVID, um, Kate is lonely, I know that.
She terribly misses her husband and that connection that she had with him.
And somehow this, this just happened to her.
And I, I don’t know if we’ll ever know any more to it than that.
Would Kate recommend it?
[00:19:42] Kate Kleinert: Actually I would.
[00:20:16] Bob: (laugh) News travels fast, yes.
And they all heard the exact same thing.
[00:20:44] Bob: Susan thought the Zoom was great too.
[00:22:13] Susan Huber: Exactly.
And you heard Kate’s response.
And um, I think Kate needed that.
Because she wasn’t 100% sure how we were all going to react.
[00:22:32] Bob: So Kate is now relieved of facing her burden alone.
But there is the real life practical problem.
She’s out of money.
Um, Kate lives in a very old house, she’s got to take care of it.
Um, that she had decided that was how she was going to attempt to fix some of this.
We’ll get to that in a moment.
She’s now an independent consultant.
She says Kate’s story is sadly very typical.
Um, the tactics that are used are very common.
What, what could they do to help?
[00:26:20] Debbie Deem: I think there’s several things.
Number one, again, start where they are.
So we have Bob’s promises kept and promises made.
And then we have you, as a victim, Debbie, promises made and promises kept.
What you’re trying to do is just open up that little sense of doubt and work with that.
Her sisters have helped her take care of the house, and she’s got a new job.
It’s a very busy job.
They have over 200 clients.
I enjoy it, and it’s providing me with some income.
[00:29:05] Kate Kleinert: I did call the police.
I called the local police, I called the state police, and the FBI.
Local police didn’t respond.
State police, a woman officer answered, and I was relieved.
I thought this is going to be so much easier telling a female what happened.
And she said to me, “Why did you call us?”
She said, “There’s no crime here.
You gave this money to him willingly.”
Still, not every law enforcement agency is well trained to deal with these kinds of online scams.
But now, Kate wants to help people with that kind of training.
And ask someone else to investigate it.
So get someone in your life that you trust that can run this stuff for you.
I like that a lot.
[00:31:21] Kate Kleinert: (laugh) That might work.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
He tells Kate that hell need $20,000 to bail Tony out of jail.
Brokenhearted, Kate leans on her sisters and finds the courage to heal.
