[00:00:23] Julie: Welcome back to AARP’s The Perfect Scam.
I’m Julie Getz, and with me today is my cohost, Frank Abagnale.
Frank, it’s good to see you.
[00:00:29] Frank Abagnale: It’s great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
[00:00:31] Julie: Frank, you’re one of the busiest people that I know.
It really teaches you how to stop scammers in their tracks.
I really enjoyed reading it.
And also, all your work with the FBI.
Frank, we’re curious, what are you teaching at the FBI Academy these days?
I teach a part of that that deals with uh cybercrime.
So, I do a lot of those different things with inside the FBI.
His name is Jonathan Herbert, and the story originated out of Lighthouse Point, Florida.
Starting in 2011, Herbert promised he could help save people’s homes through a mortgage relief program.
He defrauded 247 homeowners by stealing their mortgage payments and leaving many of them homeless.
His brazen lies netted him over $750,000 before he was caught.
He’s been with the postal service for 17 years.
[00:04:05] Bryan Masmela: Hey, good Julie, how are you?
[00:04:07] Julie: I’m well, thank you.
Bryan, let’s talk about Jonathan Herbert.
Jonathan started working at a call center.
[00:04:46] Julie: Okay.
So he actually was making pretty good money, and this call center was also a fraud.
He would contact them via phone and identify himself as a federal loan officer with the Federal Debt Commission.
[00:06:02] Bryan Masmela: He was definitely not a loan officer.
That’s what he told people to make it steal their money.
[00:06:35] Bryan Masmela: Correct.
[00:06:53] Julie: How did he spend the money he stole?
One of them was Timothy Messemer.
[00:07:48] Timothy Messemer: Good, good, how’s it going?
[00:07:49] Julie: Great, I’m doing well, thanks.
[00:07:51] Julie: Nowadays, Tim sells cigars and men’s accessories to stores around the country.
I said, “Yeah, I’m calling regarding the help wanted ad in the Sun Sentinel.”
Does that sound like something you’ve got the option to do?"
I said, “Yeah, it sounds like something I could do.”
And then he scheduled an interview for me.
He gets out of his car, sees a door that says Federal Debt Commission and walks inside.
There was about five desks in there, I guess.
I thought it was pretty cheesy.
One of the first things I asked the guy is about the name of the company.
He really wanted people to believe that he was connected to the government.
[00:09:34] Julie: Herbert admits that his company is not part of the government.
He seems friendly and eager to get Tim started right away.
[00:09:41] Timothy Messemer: Yeah, filled out all the tool forms.
Had to provide two forms of ID.
You know, all the usual stuff you would do at a legit place.
And I went out to my car.
I said, “Yeah, hang on a second.
And I grabbed my passport.
[00:10:03] Julie: The next step, training.
But instead of feeling more at ease, Tim continues to suspect that something just isn’t right.
Called him to tell him, “Listen, Jon, I don’t think this is for me.
I’m like, “You know what, don’t worry about it.
It’s on me.”
[00:10:52] Timothy Messemer: I really didn’t even think about this place.
I just figured, okay, another scam operation in all of the phone rooms in South Florida.
And you know, she’s like, “Well, yeah, you do.
You have a business account with us and a personal account with us.”
[00:11:24] Julie: By now, Tim’s more than concerned.
But he was able to do it on the telephone with a, a bank representative somewhere.
Was the mailbox registered to you as well?
So Jon just stopped going there to pick up his mail.
And the guy says, “Yeah, who should I say is calling?”
I said, “Tim Messemer.”
He said, “Really?”
He says, “You’ve got a lot of nerve showing up here.”
This guy opened up a box,” etcetera, etcetera.
I told him the whole story.
[00:13:32] Julie: Tim also tells his story to the police department.
Not long after, he gets a call from the Chicago branch of the Federal Trade Commission.
They’ve been working with the US postal inspector to investigate the case for months.
Staff attorney Jim Davis was one of their lead attorneys.
[00:14:58] Julie: How so?
[00:15:54] Julie: So it sounds like the investigation was more complicated than usual.
Anything else that stood out about this particular case?
Mr. Herbert was stealing money from consumers and providing no service in return.
His sentence will be followed by five years of supervised release.
[00:17:13] Bryan Masmela: In these schemes it’s very hard to get restitution.
[00:17:46] Julie: This is such a terrible scam.
Do you know if Herbert ever expressed any remorse for what he’d done?
[00:18:25] Julie: Great.
Thanks so much, Bryan.
I really appreciate your help and speaking with us today.
And thank you for all the good work that you do.
[00:18:30] Bryan Masmela: Thank you, so much.
[00:18:33] Julie: Now I’m back in the studio with my cohost, Frank Abagnale.
I mean these home mortgage scams are awful.
Is there anything unique about this mortgage scam story that stands out to you?
[00:19:02] Frank Abagnale: It’s really very common.
They never actually do nothing.
Every company’s going to do that.
They’d rather get money than no money at all.
This is what they said they can do for me.
[00:21:04] Julie: Do you think a scam like this one will ever go away?
[00:21:06] Frank Abagnale: I think there’ll always be scams as there always have been scams.
There will always be people trying to defraud other people if it enhanced their wealth.
I think technology is going to make it a lot easier to do that.
You’re able, again, to do it from thousands of miles away.
Would you like to donate to his campaign?
[00:22:20] Julie: You’re absolutely right, Frank.
Again, these are just like charities.
[00:23:26] Julie: All right, Frank, thanks so much for being here.
[00:23:29] Frank Abagnale: Thank you, Julie.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP - The Perfect Scam, I’m Julie Getz.
Scammers like Jonathan Herbert took advantage of this crisis to steal money from unsuspecting homeowners.
Herbert preyed on homeowners whose desperation to avoid foreclosure made them particularly susceptible to the scam.
For instance, if you are looking for a job you are more vulnerable to a work-at-home scam.
