A friendly older man named Rob asks to join them.
But as soon as she hands over the money, Rob stops returning her phone calls.
[00:00:05] Bob: Well what did he tell you about himself?
[00:00:07] Lindsay Meisner: He just said that he is partially retired.
So obviously it triggered me.
I’m like, “Oh, I’m a vet.”
And then I’m like, “Oh, I even have a Make-A-Wish kid.”
I was like, oh, like who else has the same interest than mine, you know?
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:46] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
Sure it’s about money, but it’s about so much more than that.
Generosity, that giving spirit often comes from the heart more than it comes from the head.
And that, well criminals know just how to exploit that.
Today’s story is a bold, cruel exploitation of the urge to give by a serial exploiter.
But this life of extreme challenge has also made her extremely generous.
So when a chance comes to help veterans or to help sick kids, she often jumps at it.
Let’s meet Lindsay.
[00:02:06] Bob: So when did you start playing golf?
He used to make us line up in the basement and do putting machines.
[00:02:15] Bob: I’m picturing all these kids lined up putting, hah.
[00:02:16] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah.
He literally, you, you would sit there and putt and get back in line.
Putt, get back in line.
[00:02:22] Bob: That’s amazing.
[00:02:23] Lindsay Meisner: He wasn’t messing around.
[00:02:24] Bob: You have a good short game still?
[00:02:37] Bob: There you go.
[00:02:42] Bob: Pull out a golf club, right?
[00:02:42] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah, I mean he’s right there.
Her child has CF, Cystic Fibrosis, a very serious and complex genetic disorder.
Is, is there any way you’re able to kind of explain that to people?
You don’t have any minutes for yourself, right?
I wouldn’t wish it upon my worst enemy.
No better place for a long, difficult conversation like that than on the golf course.
So we met for lunch and headed out to go golf.
[00:03:58] Bob: Just the two of you.
[00:03:59] Lindsay Meisner: Just the two of us.
[00:04:00] Bob: It’s a big deal to get this much time away, right?
He was sitting there waiting like he was with our group.
[00:04:31] Bob: He is a man who says his name is Robert.
He’s a solo player ready to join a group.
Now if you’ve never played golf, that’s not so unusual.
And we were like, “Well, we’re just going to play.”
[00:05:13] Bob: Not unusual.
[00:05:37] Bob: So they all tee off, and for several holes, they barely talk.
[00:05:44] Bob: But was, was he a pretty good golfer?
[00:05:54] Bob: Right, like everybody’s bad at it essentially.
[00:05:59] Bob: But he, at least he could keep up with you.
[00:06:00] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah, he could keep up with us.
I just do it.
[00:06:24] Bob: Got it.
Was, was it in like a bossy, male sort of way or was it just friendly?
[00:06:41] Bob: Well what did he tell you about himself?
[00:06:43] Lindsay Meisner: He just said that he is partially retired.
So obviously it triggered me.
I’m like, “Oh, I’m a vet.”
And then I’m like, “Oh, I even have a Make-A-Wish kid.”
I was like, oh, like who else has the same interest than mine, you know?
[00:07:18] Bob: And then their new golf partner mentions a fundraiser he has coming up soon.
A fundraiser for Wounded Warriors.
[00:07:26] Lindsay Meisner: He just started talking.
[00:07:48] Lindsay Meisner: 412 hours, maybe 5.
[00:07:53] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah, a lot of time.
[00:07:55] Bob: Okay.
So you finish 18 holes, he’s asked you to play with him.
He’s a, he’s dropped mention of a, of, of doing some charity work.
Did you commit to anything at that point?
[00:08:03] Lindsay Meisner: No, I didn’t.
They all knew his name.
All of the bartenders knew his name.
And there’s only like four tables in there, it’s super small in there.
So I was like, we didn’t care.
We were like, whatever, we’re, we’re finally have a good day.
‘cause I told him about my daughter having cystic fibrosis.
And I was like, “Well that would be awesome.”
[00:09:10] Bob: Plenty of schools and youth groups raise money through coupon books.
Community businesses donate discount coupons.
[00:09:36] Bob: And, and how much did the coupon book cost?
[00:09:37] Lindsay Meisner: $5000 to print.
[00:10:14] Bob: Sure, sure.
[00:10:25] Bob: Sounds like a perfect proposition.
Then we can all go to the CF event and get a table.
[00:10:59] Bob: Yeah, sure.
And so he’s like, “All right.”
I’m, I’m going to be done golfing.”
And I said, “What’s the guy’s name that prints the books?”
And he gave me this other, the guy that’s supposed to print the books number.
And so I’m like, “Okay.”
So he asks for the money in cash.
So I was like, well what, I mean I might as well use it.
[00:12:17] Bob: You got two of these $5000 books, right?
[00:12:19] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah.
[00:12:19] Bob: So you gave him $10,000.
[00:12:21] Lindsay Meisner: Yep.
[00:12:26] Lindsay Meisner: Ah, I don’t know.
I felt okay, like I just felt like I was doing good.
[00:12:44] Bob: So you’re going on with your, your very busy life.
[00:12:46] Lindsay Meisner: Yep.
[00:12:51] Lindsay Meisner: Um, I call and his phone’s shut off.
And my stomach sank.
And so I called the printer’s number, stomach sank, no answer.
No…
[00:13:02] Bob: Oh no.
[00:13:03] Lindsay Meisner: It’s all turned off.
[00:13:04] Bob: It’s all turned off?
What happened to the printer?
What happened to Robert?
It shocked our senses in that he’s pretending to take money for charity.
[00:14:00] Bob: There is no Wounded Warrior Golf Tournament.
[00:14:51] Bob: The investigation escalates very quickly.
The police sergeant realizes he needs to act before more citizens are victimized.
Why… you start realizing, oh, there’s more to it than just that one scam.
[00:15:25] Bob: You picked him up pretty quickly.
[00:15:27] Joel Lewis: We did.
[00:15:49] Bob: Sergeant Lewis is there when they apprehend Robert.
So got out and they put him in handcuffs.
And I think the only…
[00:16:31] Bob: Was he surprised?
[00:16:32] Joe Lewis: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah-yeah.
And along with my, you know obviously tactical vest and, and uniform.
[00:17:41] Bob: … rescued that victim?
[00:17:41] Joe Lewis: We did.
Which was a lie.
[00:18:14] Bob: The lying is to be expected.
But Scottsdale Police are prepared for that.
[00:18:20] Joe Lewis: He admitted to some things.
And they’re like, “Oh, you didn’t hear?”
And I’m like, “No, what are you talking about?”
And then they told me.
“Well they arrested him and and he’s a scammer.”
[00:19:24] Bob: Oh my God.
So I just, it was bad.
[00:19:43] Bob: So did you call the, the friend who you were with that day?
[00:19:46] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah.
I called her and she was like, “Well, I just talked to him yesterday.”
And I’m like, “Well, on what phone?”
And she was like, “The same number that you had.”
Because she was going to invest some of the money from her dad.
[00:19:59] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:19:59] Lindsay Meisner: But she lived in Mesa, so she couldn’t do it.
Like she didn’t have time to meet up with him.
She was working and just hadn’t had time.
[00:20:06] Bob: Thank God.
[00:20:06] Lindsay Meisner: Yep.
[00:20:07] Bob: Wow.
[00:20:08] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah.
[00:20:08] Bob: And so she must have talked to him hours before he was arrested.
[00:20:11] Lindsay Meisner: Yep.
[00:20:12] Bob: Wow.
[00:20:12] Lindsay Meisner: Yep.
[00:20:26] Bob: What kind of things did you find about him?
[00:20:28] Lindsay Meisner: Um, just the years that he spent in prison.
He had had scams that went on from 20 years ago.
I mean he’s just, like he’s a career criminal.
[00:20:37] Bob: A career criminal?
Turns out Robert only got out of prison on his prior conviction fairly recently.
Lindsay is so angry that she calls a local TV news station.
He looks like a normal guy.
Instead, police say he pocketed that cash.
Over the course of 5 years, they gave him $21 million dollars.
Alexander keeping the lie going by showing sham documents to make them think he was making money.
Once the investors figured it out, they got the FBI involved.
Alexander was charged with wire fraud in the Ponzi scheme.
In 2006, he pleaded guilty.
The court ordered Alexander to pay $9.9 million in restitution and sentenced him to 8 years in prison.
[00:22:35] Bob: This new case against Robert is fairly easy to prosecute.
Remember, he was found with an uncashed $5000 check.
And he eventually pleads guilty and is sent back to prison for 7 years.
[00:22:47] Bob: So what do you think of that?
[00:22:48] Joe Lewis: I think it’s great.
He got 7 years, plus, you know, he got about $378,000 in restitution.
He only told us he only operated on cash because he had restitution.
He came out, he did the same exact thing.
[00:24:00] Joe Lewis: It’s perfectly, perfectly effective.
[00:24:06] Bob: Wow.
[00:24:25] Bob: Yeah.
And she was left pretty shaken by the whole experience.
Because they know that it pulls on you.
[00:25:12] Bob: Yeah, they, they know where to go.
He knew, he knew exactly where to sit and, and lay his trap.
[00:25:17] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah.
He, I mean he was literally sitting there waiting.
[00:25:25] Bob: Hmm.
[00:25:25] Lindsay Meisner: That’s just what always weirded me out.
I was like, I felt like I was set up for this.
Which it can’t be.
I mean it was like, how did this manifest?
[00:25:43] Lindsay Meisner: That’s so sickening, like why would anybody ever do that?
[00:26:01] Bob: Yeah, and you’re lying about sick children.
[00:26:01] Lindsay Meisner: Like this is my 8-year-old daughter.
[00:26:03] Bob: And you’re lying about Wounded Warriors, and oh my God.
[00:26:05] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah.
And the fight for her child’s health continues.
[00:26:25] Lindsay Meisner: She just had a major surgery again two weeks ago.
We’re actually taking her Make-A-Wish trip next week.
So we’ll see how she does.
[00:26:46] Bob: But you’re still going on the trip.
[00:26:47] Lindsay Meisner: Yep.
[00:26:49] Bob: Great.
And hopefully…
[00:26:50] Lindsay Meisner: We’re still going.
[00:26:50] Bob: …you’ll be able to go snorkeling, right?
[00:26:53] Lindsay Meisner: Yeah, I’m hoping so.
[00:27:27] Lindsay Meisner: I’ve thought about this so many times.
It’s just, I mean it’s horrible.
[00:27:42] Bob: Yeah, its, it’s disgusting, it really is.
[00:27:43] Lindsay Meisner: It’s disgusting.
And it’s sad.
[00:27:57] Lindsay Meisner: No, you’ve got the option to’t.
That doesn’t do anything for anybody.
[00:28:04] Bob: Yeah.
Confidence, self-assurance, trust.
And the main tool that criminals like Robert have to inflict pain on victims.
I, my grandson, should be able to walk three blocks to school without being attacked.
But we don’t do that.
I should be able to leave my keyboard unlocked, but we don’t do that.
But if her purse gets stolen, people, “Oh, you shouldn’t have done that.”
Instead of blaming the criminal, they blame her for leaving her purse.
They’re snake charmers.
You’ve been emotionally kidnapped is what I call it.
And that’s the victimology that goes with it.
I shouldn’t have to worry about hitting a button on my computer.
But that’s how we have people losing money.
They’re not doing anything wrong.
These are good citizens trying to do the right thing.
Is it their fault that they’re doing that?
No, they’re actually trying to do the right thing, to pay for a warrant.
As you would, I would talk to any community at any time.
And we should keep talking about putting blame where it belongs, on criminals, not on victims.
Bennett is an executive at the Better Business Bureau Wise Giving Alliance, which is a charity monitoring organization.
It operates the website Give.org, a great resource for backgrounding charities.
It’s a long time to talk to someone uh before he even started to approach this.
That, that strikes me as, as really sinister.
Do criminals often spend that much time say grooming their victims?
[00:32:27] Bennett Weiner: Sometimes, yes.
If they’re, again, seeking to get a significant amount.
And they’re usually going to seek out trusted environments which, in which there’s socialization.
And the golf course certainly sounds like it could be one.
But, but the vast majority of people aren’t doing that, unfortunately.
[00:34:17] Bennett Weiner: Go directly to their website and give to them directly.
you could give directly to the organization knowing that your gift has been received by them.
A third party, there can be questions that come up.
And sometimes this happens when there isn’t ill intent.
You, you want to give and help a disaster relief organization.
What are the advantages there?
Bennett summarizes them for you here.
[00:35:56] Bennett Weiner: Yeah, sure.
You shouldn’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what the organization’s activities are.
The appeal itself should be clear about what they do.
Another possibility is check with state charity officials.
Uh, I’m at Give.org right now.
It’s a very simple and straightforward website.
“Find charities you’re free to trust.
Enter a charity name.”
[00:39:06] Bob: Okay, so the website works great.
I typed in Wounded Warrior and interestingly enough, I got six results.
There’s tabs for purpose programs, governance and staff.
There’s even a notation of how many complaints, in this case three, a very small number.
[00:39:58] Bennett Weiner: Right.
Okay, so you mentioned the standards.
What are the, uh BBB standards for charity accountability?
There are four major sections of the standards, and the first one is governance.
And governance is first for a reason because the buck does stop with the board.
And finances, we’re going to be checking again how much they spent on programs or for fundraising.
We do look at some ratios and have some threshold categories on that.
And uh, the appeals of the organization information materials.
[00:43:10] Bennett Weiner: Well, I don’t know if that’s really the cause.
And that’s what people remember.
[00:43:44] Bob: Just because there are exceptions, you shouldn’t be hesitant to give.
Shouldn’t let the criminals steal your generous spirit.
For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch data pipe Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
