Thetech supportoperator tells her that her account has been compromised.
[00:00:04] Marlene Betesh: “Drive there right now.
Do not stop and don’t talk to anybody.”
Where does he want me to go?
To a liquor store.
“Don’t shut off the motor.
Go in, you’ll see a bitcoin machine.”
It’s spitting it out on the floor at me.
I don’t know what’s happening to me.
My back is killing me.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:40] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
But most of our lives we’re busy thinking not about scams but about something else.
Are the kids fed?
Do I need to fix the roof?
Why does my back hurt so much?
Often, criminals are successful because us human beings are busy living our lives distracted by other things.
And they catch us at just the right time when our defenses are low.
That’s a big part of today’s story.
She knitted caps for children stricken with cancer and going through chemotherapy.
And I said, let me try a hat.
She was spending much of her free time knitting.
And I flew out to Memphis, Tennessee, seven times in six years.
She called it her mission in her golden years.
[00:03:06] Marlene Betesh: Oh my goodness.
(chuckles) First of all, they lose their dignity, they lose their hair.
They’re freezing, they’re cold all the time.
I was already in pain.
I had, I was in bed resting, getting ready for surgery.
I never saw my screen do that.
And the screenshot says, “Suspicious activity - Bank fraud.
And it kept flickering.
How can I help you?”
“Well my screen is going on and off like…” bah-bah-bah-bah.
“Oh my goodness, you have a virus.
We have to check it.
Let us check your machine.”
[00:05:05] Marlene Betesh: They told me that I was in big trouble.
They said that I accepted a sale from Russia the morning before.
I said, “Excuse me?”
They said, “You accepted a sale for $11,000 in Russia.
7:03 in the morning.”
I said, “Excuse me?
I am nowhere near my phone; my phone is not near my bed.
I only look for my cellphone with my phone.”
I go, “What are you talking about?”
[00:05:55] Bob: Take your money out of the bank before Russia empties your bank account?
That’s what the man says.
[00:06:01] Marlene Betesh: Yep, “Go to the bank.
Take out the money before–, hold on a minute!
Let’s see if the sale went through …
Yes, it did.
I said, “What?”
I said, “It’s almost 4 o’clock.”
They said, “Well you’d better hurry up.”
[00:06:36] Bob: Marlene struggles to the car.
She’s in a lot of pain.
Races to the bank and gets to the bank right as the front door is about to be locked.
Don’t talk to anybody.
Just go in there and get out the money.”
And she looks at me, and I knock again.
“You have to let me in.”
And she goes, “Okay, I’ll let you in.”
You have to do it.”
So…
[00:07:37] Marlene Betesh: Well, they wrote out the withdrawal slip.
I’m a wreck.
Don’t you see I’m a wreck?
You count the money and give it to me."
So they counted the money and handed it to me.
[00:07:56] Marlene Betesh: Running.
[00:08:00] Marlene Betesh: I didn’t think about that at all.
They’re going to open me a new bank account.
Somebody’s after me.
Russia wants my money.
[00:08:14] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:08:16] Marlene Betesh: I was petrified.
She’s feeling panicky and really just wants to go home and go back to bed.
But she can’t.
“No, we’re going to back up your money.
We’re going to protect your money till tomorrow.
We’re going to open you a new bank account till tomorrow.
But Charlie Miller, accept his call, he’s going to call you now.”
It’s Charlie Miller, that’s what I see.
Charlie Miller asks me, “Where are you?
Do you know Cobblestones?”
“Yes, I do.
It’s a shopping center near my house.”
“Drive there right now.
Do not stop and don’t talk to anybody.”
It’s after 4 now, Friday.
I drive to Cobblestones.
Where does he want me to go?
To a liquor store.
“Don’t shut off the motor.
Go in, you’ll see a bitcoin machine.”
[00:09:22] Bob: Drive to a liquor store to a bitcoin machine with all this cash?
[00:09:29] Bob: Had you ever held that much cash before?
[00:09:32] Marlene Betesh: No.
[00:09:35] Bob: Were you scared to be driving around with it?
[00:09:50] Marlene Betesh: “Just hit start.”
“Just hit start?”
We’re going to protect your money."
“You’re going to protect my money.
Just go in and don’t talk to anybody.”
[00:10:14] Bob: So she walks inside and feels terribly alone.
[00:10:19] Marlene Betesh: I see a machine.
I ask the man and woman behind the counter, “Could you kindly help me?
Could you like help me?”
I see a machine, I see start, start.
That’s all I saw.
I didn’t see anything else but start.
It’s spitting it out on the floor at me.
[00:10:53] Marlene Betesh: Yeah, a vending machine.
I don’t know what’s happening to me.
My back is killing me.
I’m on medication.
[00:11:09] Marlene Betesh: He said, “Take a picture of your license.”
A picture of my license?
I take out my license, I take a picture.
He goes, “Turn it over.”
I turn it over.
I’m telling you, it’s like yesterday.
I take a picture.
He goes, “It’s blurry.
Take it again.”
Now he says, “That’s good.
Take a selfie.”
I lift the phone to my face; I don’t even take selfies.
And he goes, “Take off your glasses.”
Take off my glasses?
Who the flick is watching me?
I take off my glasses, I take a picture.
“Stick your phone under the light in the machine.”
I’m almost in tears.
I don’t know what I’m doing, and I took my glasses off.
“Stick the phone under the light.”
Guess what, nothing happened.
He sends me another scan, and I hear my money go (sound effect) … gone.
[00:12:14] Bob: Finally the man tells her she can go home.
But something is gnawing at her.
So she calls her bank.
[00:12:31] Marlene Betesh: “Hello?
How do you accept the sale from Russia for $11,000 and what was it for?”
And they go, “Excuse me?
What are you talking about?”
They said, “Nothing.
You have an Apple sale for $2.99 today, and you took out a lot of money.
Oh my goodness, this is fraud.
This is fraud, hold on, we’re getting the fraud department.”
I go, “What?”
He said, “We’re getting the fraud department, this is fraud.”
[00:13:09] Bob: This is fraud?
Who was on the phone with her?
[00:13:24] Marlene Betesh: So I’m kicking the machine when I went back.
“fire up the machine, get me my money.
I want my money.”
“No, you could’t have your money, it’s not your money anymore.”
“It’s my money.”
[00:13:47] Bob: God.
[00:13:48] Bob: The trauma really hits Marlene hard.
She contacts the police.
They go back to the liquor store, but she’s really struggling.
Her words were, “Oh, sweetheart, at least it’s not a kidney.”
Okay, at least it’s not a kidney.
The next day I showered, I bathed, I shaved, blah-blah, blah-blah.
I went and bought flowers to give her, ‘cause she was rocking me.
I walk in the store with a bouquet of flowers, gift wrapped, and a card.
And the man said, “Karen, I think she’s here for you.”
And she turns around and goes, “Who would send me flowers?
I don’t have a boyfriend.”
And she’s staring at me.
So I take another step forward towards her, she steps back.
I said, “These are for you.
I’m the bitcoin lady.”
She goes, “You’re who?”
I said, “I’m the bitcoin lady.”
She goes, “No you’re not, you’re gorgeous.
That was you?”
That’s the kind of wreck of a person I was that night.
She didn’t recognize me.
[00:15:22] Bob: Hmm.
I can see why.
[00:15:30] Marlene Betesh: She was comforting me.
But…
[00:15:43] Marlene Betesh: The 31st day I got a phone call.
Instead of me calling them, they called me.
You took your money out."
I said, “Yes, I took my money out.
I thought I was talking to you.”
She said, “Well you weren’t, and that’s not our problem.”
And she hung up.
[00:16:09] Bob: And at that point she realizes just how bad things have become.
[00:16:14] Marlene Betesh: That’s right.
I cried for one month straight.
I need my money back.
Everything feels like a struggle.
How much do you think the pain you were in uh had to do with all this?
[00:16:54] Marlene Betesh: The pain, I was in a lot of pain.
I was in a lot of pain.
I can take pain, but my, my back was, it was brutal.
It, it was brutal.
I was laying on heating pads, water bottles, um, I don’t like to take medicine.
[00:17:13] Marlene Betesh: A lot.
[00:17:14] Bob: Yeah.
[00:17:15] Marlene Betesh: And, and I was exhausted.
It started flickering right, immediately, immediately.
[00:17:45] Marlene Betesh: Yes.
Was that a lot to you?
[00:17:53] Marlene Betesh: Everything.
[00:17:56] Bob: It was all the money you had back left in your checking account?
[00:17:59] Marlene Betesh: A couple thousand left.
[00:18:01] Bob: Wow.
How are you getting by?
[00:18:04] Marlene Betesh: I’m really not.
So my income is $850 a month.
[00:18:29] Bob: Wow.
[00:18:30] Bob: But she’s still trying to find the good in things.
[00:18:34] Marlene Betesh: I paint, I color.
Um, I just enjoy life.
It’s, it’s fabulous, life can be fabulous.
But I love children, I love people.
I love life, and I love giving.
She wants to warn others about what can happen.
The moment they say, “Let me check your box.
I have to see if you have a virus.”
Hang up the phone.
The moment anybody says, “Take a selfie,” shut your phone off.
Listen to your, I’m going to say, listen to your heart.
I knew something was wrong, but I couldn’t get it.
I wasn’t myself that day…at all.
And I just, it was like it, it wasn’t real.
It was like I was in a dream.
[00:20:00] Bob: And one more critical piece of advice she has.
[00:20:05] Marlene Betesh: Take care of you.
[00:20:07] Bob: That’s…
[00:20:08] Marlene Betesh: Take care of you.
[00:20:09] Bob: …pretty solid advice right there.
We all have to take care of ourselves.
[00:20:12] Marlene Betesh: And thank you.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
[00:20:17] Bob: Marlene really wants to be heard.
Well, in truth, she’s still going through it.
That’s how she came to us for this episode.
you’re free to call the helpline at 877-908-3360 for help any time.
[00:22:12] Bob: Seems to be consensus that scams are increasing dramatically.
Why do you think that is?
Now remember, these are just people who report.
And a lot of times the number of people that report may be only 5 or 10%.
[00:24:42] Bob: Oh God.
So the UK has had a big problem with scams uh going back.
And if you look at it historically around 2007, 2008, the UK started faster payments.
And we have a saying in fraud, “Faster payments equals faster fraud.”
And it’s true.
There was a consumer group called “Which?”
which was also, you know, pounding the table saying something has to be done.
[00:26:42] Ken Palla: Yeah.
[00:26:43] Bob: That’s right.
Um, and then they pulled in someone from the fraud department on a phone call.
And so uh this woman teller in uh Tasmania in Australia, saved 40,000 Australian dollars.
And you know they’re, there definitely there’s, there’s more focus at the government level.
I don’t see a focus at the US government level.
It’s proven to be very difficult.
And in many cases, it’s more about controls than actual reimbursement.
So that’s something to keep in mind.
And so it’s the banks’ customers suffering um, from this.
[00:31:10] Bob: How would the US expand regulations to require reimbursement for these kinds of scams?
Well it’s not so easy.
And then the fraudster logs into your account and does a transaction.
That’s an unauthorized transaction.
And generally, those are reimbursed.
But Reg E was written well before the internet even came about.
And so it’s really back quite a ways.
I don’t think it takes any, any vote of Congress.
It’s just a regulation of saying here’s more controls that we have to have.
And so far, I haven’t seen that.
And so I think you just have to get around that, and just here are the new requirements.
This is what you have to do.
This gets a little technical, but it’s very important.
So when we talk about banking, we have a sending bank and a receiving bank.
So that’s the sending bank.
And then they send the wire to the other bank.
That’s the receiving bank.
In the case of Zelle for these limited impersonation scam reimbursements, it’s 100% the receiving bank.
One hundred percent the receiving bank.
And now somebody say, well why do you involve the receiving bank?
Or it could be a romance scam victim who’s been kind of conned into becoming a money mule.
So a lot of definition when you really get into money mule accounts.
[00:36:54] Bob: That’s really interesting.
[00:37:03] Ken Palla: Hm-hmm, yes.
[00:37:05] Bob: So you’re saying you are responsible for knowing that this is a criminal.
You tell them."
So that’s part of the problem.
It doesn’t cost money, it’s just training.
Training and phone calls.
[00:40:17] Ken Palla: (chuckles) Yeah.
[00:40:24] Ken Palla: That’s it, that’s exactly what it is.
I mean if someone has a gun in front of you, you know what to do.
You know you rob a bank, maybe you get 5, $10,000.
This person’s being robbed, and they lose $40,000 or $20,000, whatever it is.
I mean something very serious.
That, that’s what it, that’s what it takes.
There’s a loaded gun, there’s a procedure for that.
[00:41:08] Ken Palla: Oh, without a doubt, without a doubt.
I mean I think bank robberies have become passe.
But Ken right there really makes the case.
Bank robberies are now passe, he just told us, because scams are so profitable for criminals.
What kind of um, tips do you have for them to protect themselves?
Never, never, never.
What the fraudsters are trying to do is send something like, “Hey, thanks for last weekend.
I’m looking forward to this weekend.”
And that’s all the scammer wants is to get a hook into you and start a dialog.
And 1 out of 100 or whatever with that dialog it will lead to a scam and a loss.
So never ever respond to a text message from someone you don’t know.
Let it go to voicemail.
What the scammers attempt to do is get you in a sense of urgency.
What do I do?"
So if you listen to a voicemail, you don’t have that same emotional attachment.
Never, never take a phone number off of an email you get.
You know, go to a known source where you have a number.
We love hearing from listeners.
For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web link Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
