He is not thewealthy, successful oil executivehe claims to be.
[00:00:03] John Buzzard: Fifty-six billion dollars in combined losses, 49 million victims.
They might not be your loss numbers today, but they could be tomorrow.
[00:00:21] Welcome back to The Perfect Scam, I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
Moments later, he’s face down on the floor in handcuffs.
That’s, well that’s foreshadowing if I could let you peak behind the storyteller’s curtain.
Here’s Whitney talking about that day.
[00:01:43] Whitney Kirkpatrick: He wanted to go to the casino, which was odd.
We drive up and we spend the day in the casino.
He gives me some money to gamble with.
And he’s just on the gambling machine all day.
He’s trying to win big or lose everything.
And he doesn’t win big, so they go home.
I jump in the shower, first thing, jump in the shower.
He is in the living area watching television.
[00:02:43] Bob: And in an instant everything about Whitney’s life is about to change.
Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
And I immediately turn off the water, wrap up in a towel.
I peek my head out the door and say, “Oh my gosh!
What is going on?”
And I was like, “What’s going to be okay?”
He’s on his stomach.
They handcuff him, and this is just a two-bedroom, you know, apartment.
And there had to be at least 15 of these huge people with guns and weapons.
There’s someone recording all of this.
I guess his job was to record.
They moved the furniture out of the way, flipping it over, looking under the couch.
[00:04:02] Bob: Whitney has no idea what’s going on.
She’d kissed him on New Year’s Eve in New York City.
She helped him buy a house.
They joined a country club together.
But now, he’s just sitting there on the couch – in handcuffs not saying a word.
[00:04:33] Whitney Kirkpatrick: And it seemed like an eternity.
And I am so confused.
And I’m over here like, what the hell?
And eventually the police um, start questioning him.
Apparently, he was the, the head detective, the lead guy.
[00:05:20] Bob: Tell her what, Whitney thinks.
And Greg didn’t say anything during this whole process.
He’s like, “You’ve been renting office space at such and such a place.
Youve been renting cars.
You’ve stolen funds and going on.
He just listed off all these things that apparently, they had been watching Greg do.
[00:06:03] Bob: He’s not who you think he is.
Those words ring out in Whitney’s ears.
Her brain is working overtime trying to digest everything.
They said, “These are all the cards that he’s opened in your name.
You might want to take care of this.”
[00:06:49] Bob: Slowly, the very blurry picture starts to come into focus.
Greg had been living his entire life as if he was playing around in a casino with her money.
He stole her heart, and then he stole her identity.
This wasn’t just a big game; it was a big crime.
And Greg, well it seems like the police knew all about Greg.
So I had to kind of get dressed in front of a, a roomful of police officers.
It turns out they weren’t what they seemed either.
They were a test.
The young couple had been under surveillance for a while.
[00:08:38] Whitney Kirkpatrick: They were like, “We know you went to the casino today.
We watched you.”
They said, “Those phone calls you got while you were at work?
That was us.”
And they said, “We had no idea if it was you and him, or just him.
[00:09:03] Whitney Kirkpatrick: It felt like my world was imploding on me.
Like right in that instant, have you ever been in a situation where you get like tunnel vision?
All of a sudden it kind of feels like everything around you goes dark.
That’s what I mean by like I felt like everything was imploding in on me.
And everything was moving in slow motion around me because my brain couldn’t process it fast enough.
It was too much stimuli at once, and my brain could not process it.
It was, that, that’s why I didn’t realize how frozen I was.
Greg has nothing to say for himself.
And all I could just say was, “Why?”
That’s, that’s all I could say is must “why?”
I don’t know why anybody would do that.
You know, and he just, he didn’t say anything, he just walked off.
There was stuff everywhere.
And I just cried.
And I just, I was bawling on the phone, and she said, “What happened?”
And I just said, “It’s all fake.
It’s all, it’s, none of this is real.
None of it’s real.”
[00:11:05] Bob: Whitney’s mom, Claudia, remembers that phone call this way.
[00:11:08] Claudia Kirkpatrick: I do remember calling her.
I don’t know what prompted me to make the call, but I do remember calling her.
That if Greg wasn’t supposed to be in her life, that he not be in her life.
But when she told me the circumstances, I was so thankful.
[00:11:53] Bob: While Whitney talks to her mom, she slowly starts to calm down.
And then, it dawns on her that she has some real problems on her hands.
So Mom leaps into action.
[00:12:04] Claudia Kirkpatrick: Yeah, she was really scared.
So we did go down, and I did go with her to the police department.
Every part of her interactions with him was fake, was staged for her benefit.
It just, it just went on and on.
The fake websites about his businesses.
It just went on and on.
And it was just shocking to just, just, just all have that all unfold.
Like hey, you know, I know shady people, and people lie.
Because clearly, he had the stamina and the brains to do this.
[00:14:46] Bob: The office full of workers, fake.
The awards and accolades online, Greg had posted them himself.
Even a phone call Whitney had received from the governor, well that was staged.
[00:15:08] Whitney Kirkpatrick: He also um, had a previous history of impersonating police officers.
But he did that one day and put a huge dent in the side of my car.
And this was all at night.
I guess this is what he did at night.
Like how her checking account was raided, and how the criminal got her pin code.
But he was just sifting through it and finding things, um, and taking them out.
[00:17:07] Bob: The trap Greg laid for Whitney was incredibly elaborate.
And all the while, it was him claiming to be all these people.
[00:18:08] Bob: Remember, Whitney took things slowly with Greg.
She even met his family, but they were in on the elaborate ruse too.
What they would do was be very, very kind to the young lady and very welcoming.
“We love you.
Greg talks about you all the time.”
He would steal the woman’s identity, open up a bunch of credit cards.
[00:19:32] Bob: Wow.
[00:19:33] Whitney Kirkpatrick: Yeah, it was a big thing.
[00:19:53] Bob: An elaborate hoax, but hardly a victimless crime.
So what I would have paid in rent um, I just put in my savings account.
I said, “What?”
I had no idea.
So you’re three months behind on, on your rent.”
Here you go.”
They would not take personal checks from me.
I contacted people throughout the country club, and I was like, hey, here’s what happened.
Little old lady he had talked about.
I said, “I really hope he didn’t take advantage of you.”
And she was like, “Oh, thank you so much for telling me.
It turned out the police didn’t even know about the house.
They were just, I said, “What are you guys going to do about the house?”
And they said, “What house?”
[00:22:51] Bob: She has to deal with cleaning up her credit too.
Fortunately, that goes fairly quickly thanks to help from friends and the police.
The woman sat on the phone with me and took everything off.
We went through everything, and um, it was immediately rectified.
Because I know that’s not the case for everyone.
And um, then I had extra protection put on my, my credit at that time.
[00:23:54] Whitney Kirkpatrick: I did follow-up with the police.
And I heard he got out after 7.
[00:24:05] Bob: So he spent roughly 9 months living this amazing life.
[00:24:10] Whitney Kirkpatrick: Yes.
[00:24:12] Bob: And in exchange, he just had to spend 9 months in jail?
That seems like a deal a lot of people would make.
Basically, in the, in the legal world, he just lied.
We need more space for murderers and drug dealers.
People that just lie, steal identities, okay, you might leave early.
So he got out.
That wasn’t his first stint in jail for identity theft.
That’s all I kind of saw jail as for him.
[00:25:03] Bob: Like a university.
[00:25:05] Whitney Kirkpatrick: A university.
And then forwarded her a news story saying Greg had been arrested for allegedly murdering a young woman.
Whitney immediately thought she had quite literally dodged a bullet.
[00:25:42] Bob: John Buzzard is the lead fraud and security analyst for Javelin Strategy and Research.
He’s been studying identity theft for a long time.
[00:26:29] Bob: Seventy-six percent of the time?
[00:26:31] John Buzzard: Isn’t that surprising?
[00:26:33] Bob: That has my jaw on the ground.
[00:26:42] John Buzzard: That’s an interesting number for sure.
When we look at traditional identity fraud, um, it can happen and victimize anyone.
But the nexus of it doesn’t have any meaning.
You, you don’t know why you’re victimized.
So it’s a very powerful, shocking number.
They are cultivating some sort of a relationship with their intended victim.
Your mind immediately wants to say, well their mark, if you will.
But obviously, personal, physical relationships also evolve into identity fraud situations.
And again, it’s proximity.
[00:29:32] John Buzzard: Well, absolutely.
[00:30:12] Bob: So technology often makes these crimes easier to commit.
And when you add it all up, well it really adds up.
It’s a problem.
So be very careful.
49 million victims, that’s, that’s quite a lot.
[00:31:41] John Buzzard: Absolutely.
It happens with everybody, but that is a major consideration for her.
So it, I think that she was very hurt by the whole thing.
I don’t think you see it in people.
[00:32:53] Bob: Whitney says the big lesson she learned was to trust herself.
[00:32:57] Whitney Kirkpatrick: You should just listen to your gut.
Why do you have a new rental car every other month?
You know where did the last one go?
How many wrecks do you keep getting into?
You know, or, oh that one got stolen?
Mom was really, really shocked to hear about the murder.
[00:34:10] Claudia Kirkpatrick: I was surprised.
If you had said to me, do you think he’s still conning people?
I would have said yes, I, I think he’s still conning people.
But to murder someone?
I just didn’t see that coming at all.
[00:34:41] Bob: So how is Whitney now after reliving this whole experience?
[00:34:45] Whitney Kirkpatrick: Oh, now I’m, I’m, I’m wonderful.
So um, so I’m just, just fine.
[00:35:23] Bob: I am so impressed that you’re not really bitter.
[00:35:25] Whitney Kirkpatrick: Right (chuckles).
Yeah, no, no, um, no, definitely, no, not bitter.
Life’s too short, and there’s too much um, beautiful stuff in the world.
I’m actually um, going through breast cancer treatment right now.
You know, 9 months is really not that long when you look at the big picture of life.
What can I tell other people, so it doesn’t happen to them?
Yeah, it’s nothing to be bitter about.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
