And I went, what?
And I, I, I just freaked out.
[00:00:14] Isabella: Im on a mission.
I am going to find these people.
They are going to go to jail.
[00:00:30] Isabella: Go with your gut.
Because your gut tells you, this isnt right.
And I didnt listen to my gut.
[00:00:42] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
Last week you heard the story of Isabella who lives near the beach in Delaware.
If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, you should go back and do that now.
She quickly meets Michael who turns her life upside-down.
It’s a moment of truth for Isabella.
I mean I was in debt to my eyes.
I didnt know how I was going to pay any of my bills.
He said, Okay, I’ll get you the money."
[00:02:17] Bob: But Michael has an unusual way to get money to Isabella.
He has her log into another bank account and transfer money to herself.
She isn’t really sure what she’s doing, but she is pretty desperate.
And I was like, Michael, how can I input that?
And it, I mean it really freaked me out.
Instead of like 123456, it was the emoji of the devil as 1, and then 23456.
And of course it timed out and then we went back again.
But I went into the bank account, I finally got in, and I transferred the funds.
There was plenty of money in that account, and I transferred it into my bank account.
[00:03:32] Isabella: I went to my bank, nothing appeared.
He kept saying to me, Did the money appear?
And I went, what?
And I, I, I just freaked out.
[00:03:51] Bob: Suddenly accused of hacking into someone else’s bank account, Isabella confronts Michael.
He says there must be some mistake, that her bank is to blame.
And thats what I did.
And thats how I discovered.
And I approached him.
I said, Michael, what, what is this?
I said I confronted him with it.
He said, no, he was hacked by this model.
And I didnt, I said, Impossible, I dont believe it.
And now, Im like, what am I going to do?
I, I realized at that point I was scammed.
And he said, Ill get you all the money that you, that I owe you.
And Im like, right.
And that was how I discovered it.
[00:05:31] Bob: That must have just been like your world crashed at that moment.
[00:05:35] Isabella: Oh, it did.
I, I did not know what I was going to do.
[00:05:42] Bob: Isabella had truly hit rock bottom.
Because once she hits rock bottom, well suddenly, she starts to see things more clearly.
I was back to being me again.
And I said, I am going to fight this.
And we prayed, and he said, Go to the police.
She makes a promise to herself that her story won’t end here.
[00:07:43] Bob: There is a 9-page police report from Isabella’s first interaction with law enforcement.
I have seen it.
It’s really something.
Still, understandably, the local detective says it is extremely unlikely that anything will come of it.
The detective makes sure she understands this is a reality.
[00:08:10] Isabella: I said to him, Im on a mission.
I am going to find these people.
They are going to go to jail.
And he said, No, in Delaware we dont prosecute people like this.
They just dont do it.
It requires too much work.
And I said, Im telling you.
We are going to get these people.
And he says, Well, I hope so.
And that was my mission, and thats what I did and have been doing since October of 2018.
[00:08:42] Bob: Isabella is relentless.
She takes that police report and sends it to anyone she can think of.
I provided the Department of Justice, I provided them with information that I had found.
I had a lot of names to look at.
And I told the person in Delaware, This guy, Robert, hes in the United States.
it’s possible for you to go after him.
No, they use aliases, they dont use… And I said, No, guy is real.
They wouldnt really believe me.
So I said, “Okay.”
[00:09:40] Bob: Then, one day, the almost unthinkable happens.
It turns out that Isabella is right.
[00:10:46] Bob: Oh… wow.
[00:10:49] Isabella: Yeah, I was like ecstatic.
[00:10:54] Isabella: That one was under the name of Joe Terry.
[00:10:57] Bob: Joe Terry.
And where was Joe?
[00:10:59] Isabella: Joe was in jail in New York.
[00:11:04] Isabella: New York.
[00:11:05] Bob: He was in New York.
Okay, so I can’t imagine, did you double-check like 50 times when you saw the name?
[00:11:11] Isabella: Oh, absolutely.
[00:11:12] Bob: Joe Terry wasn’t his real name.
They were so excited about this.
So they immediately contacted them and linked my case to that case.
It’s too hard to move large amounts of money in and out of the country without being noticed.
Money mules they are sometimes called.
Other times the criminals just get sloppy.
[00:12:39] Isabella: I said, “I’d like to appear at the sentencing.
Robert Asante has been indicted and is awaiting trial.
Debbie Deem is a former FBI Victims Rights Advocate, and she’s seen a lot of these cases.
They often involve crime gangs and specific African nations, she says.
[00:14:48] Bob: I asked Debbie if these scams are now being passed down through generations.
[00:14:53] Bob: And I’d like to maybe tease that out a little bit more.
[00:15:07] Debbie Deem: Yes, so I’d totally say third generation.
[00:15:33] Bob: Well, tell me about those.
What, what is that newest crime you’re seeing?
And so I think that the criminals, you know, it meets every one of their things.
You know, so it really matches up with their ploy perfectly.
He, he used big names.
He said he was going to Afghanistan.
He invoked the name of General Petraeus.
He talked about kidnapping.
[00:19:39] Amy Nofziger: Oh, absolutely.
Like I heard that this morning on the news.
That must be right.
And, again, credibility.
The celebrity of it all.
The celebrity of General Petraeus, the credibility of a general.
You know, we hear about Afghanistan all the time in the news.
Again, they just want to make it seem credible.
Yeah, I’ve heard about bitcoin lately, or uh rescue mission, kidnapping.
I’ve heard, yeah, I did see that in the news last night.
It gives you like an extra 10 points in the trust-o-meter, right?
[00:21:08] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely.
Right, they glom onto these current events.
And like, oh, you’ve heard about, you know what’s going on in Afghanistan.
This is what, this is real.
I’m living it right now.
[00:22:14] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely.
So the victims that do have some skepticism, they go check it out.
I believe this person, and I love them, so why would they lie to me?
And she knew it was in the letter, and just didn’t open it.
[00:23:25] Amy Nofziger: Humans don’t always want to face the truth, right.
And we hear that a lot from victims.
[00:24:13] Bob: I asked Amy, “Can online dating be safe?”
You know, I’m Bob.
What’s your name?
Do you want to chat?
You’d be like, you’re crazy, right?
Um, you know we can trust, but we need to verify, right.
Almost think that this person is trying to scam you.
And then be pleasantly surprised when they’re actually a good person.
And to take it upon herself to have a go at check that her perpetrators ended up in jail.
[00:26:06] Debbie Deem: That’s exactly right.
And I’ve got two quick stories.
Her losses were substantial, and it was just emotionally so devastating.
You know, I have 40 some transactions.”
Um, so she did the best she could, and she did.
Um, I really need to talk to her.
So it’s not going to happen to everyone.
Many of these cases go cold.
These fraudsters are using fake phone numbers.
They’re using emails that are easily hidden.
A lot of the work is encrypted.
Uh, so it’s, it can be very, very difficult investigations.
Amy has seen it too many times.
It doesn’t happen within a week, right, they love-bomb you.
They tell you sad stories, they get you under their emotional ether.
But the biggest red flag, they ask for money.
They ask for money.
They ask for phones.
You deserve better than that.
Right, I mean if you, you have, you have a whole retirement.
You’ve worked hard your whole life for your money.
you’re gonna wanna be with someone who is independent and financially strong like yourself.
You deserve better than that.
[00:30:30] Bob: You do deserve better than that.
How is Isabella doing now?
She’s certainly gratified that her lover was caught.
[00:30:40] Bob: Well that must feel uh fantastic.
[00:30:42] Isabella: Oh, it is.
Its, its just wonderful.
[00:30:45] Bob: But, but what about you.
Where are you at now?
[00:30:51] Isabella: Im working on that.
Im, Im you know, Im working on everything.
Im, Ive close to finishing off one bill.
Um, Im involved with an attorney for the others, so um, Im surviving.
Im, Im a lot luckier than a lot of other people.
[00:31:12] Bob: Thats such a great attitude, my God.
[00:31:17] Isabella: I dont want anyone to have to go through this.
[00:31:20] Bob: So what would you say to someone.
Uh, I have two important questions for you.
[00:31:46] Isabella: Go with your gut.
Because your gut tells you, this isnt right.
And I didnt listen to my gut.
And um, and once you do discover, fight back.
[00:32:11] Bob: And how are you feeling about the whole thing now?
[00:32:14] Isabella: Um, days… Because only people that have experienced it can explain and, what theyre feeling.
And um, I have helped other people.
I knew someone that um, was in a really bad way, and Ive helped her.
Ive helped quite a few people, um, to move forward.
We can all move forward, but you have to fight back.
[00:33:04] Isabella: Don’t settle for that.
I did have the FBI contact me.
They were very impressed with the information that I provided them.
She’s still hoping.
But she did make something creative about the whole affair.
[00:33:35] Bob: What’s the name of your book?
[00:33:44] Bob: “Lying Lips & Deceitful Tongues.”
Hmm, might be a good podcast name, too.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free supportand guidance on what to do next.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Her tenacity pays off when Robert Asante and accomplices are arrested and charged with stealing millions of dollars.
Isabella now has the strength to share what shes learned and helps other victims of romance scams.
