So she set about turning the lights on.
The very quality of my thoughts changed, the author, filmmaker, and artist tells Bustle.
Her sophomore novel,All Fours,fills in that emptiness.
Although informed by Julys research, and even fact-checked by a doctor, its no textbook.
The journey is, by turns, horny and embarrassing and ludicrous and beautiful.
Life on the other side, it turns out, is just as weird and messy and expansive.
And though there is a wisdom that comes with age, the indignities and discomfort never fall away entirely.
Theres a lot being written now about theangerandfrustrationof motherhood anddisappointing husbands.
Why did you want to write a story like that?
Its not really a story about him.
Hes not so terrible that they can be like Absolutely, I should get out of here.
It might be the structure of marriage.
It might be the structure of what [she allows herself] within a patriarchy.
We all know the story of blowing up your life, and it seems to be all or nothing.
I was more interested in [questions like] What in a given day could you do thats different?
Is there a way of thinking differently, or slightly changing the structure with your partner?
Those are the kinds of things I was doing as I wrote the book.
I didnt want blow up my life.
it’s possible for you to make small changes that can lead to something good.
Small changes is a bit of a misnomer.
Where is the love?
Because a lot of these dont make me happy, so maybe we can change it.
How do you feel about that?
I am interested in all the different ways you might make something feel really alive.
Ill risk almost anything in the name of an art experiment.
Most writers do not write movies and then go act in them.
What do you think it can do as a tool?
What was it like?
I actually havent asked anyone this who doesnt know me.
I have my imaginings of what it felt like.
You wouldnt be writing this book if there wasnt some intersection with your life.
I have close friends who are always put in that autofiction territory, like Sheila Heti.
None of them relate to it.
What was your goal in writing the sex scenes?
Sex is another one of those mysterious spaces, like perimenopause.
What is it made out of?
Weve described it in this very narrow way, but I literally dont understand the mind-body connection.
It seems like weve all agreed on something about what sex is, but its a bit arbitrary.
Its an ongoing relationship with yourself, with all its ebbs and flows.
If you think of consummation as money.
Where do you want to spend your consummation, your sex scene?
you might buy a guy coming anywhere, or just, It felt so good.
We came together and it felt so good.
But its harder to buy shifting your whole relationship to aging women.
I dont know how to buy that.
No ones selling it.
I dont know how to get it.
Its a perspective shift.
That said, this book is dedicated to my friend Isabelle, whos a sculptor.
Our relationship is so important to me, and theres a fictional version of it in the book.
I get so much from watching her process.
I said, Do you want your last name there?
We talked about it a little bit, and shes been so supportive.
Shes not that way.
Shes never worried about that kind of thing.
I feel like earnestness is a little bit out of fashion right now.
How do you think about earnestness and its utility?
They should be funny, too.
Or if not funny, at least having some joy.
People who are never earnest are often not very fun.
Right, thats true.
Because you dont really know what ground youre standing on.
A self-help book thats a novel.
But that book came out, calledWhat Fresh Hell Is This?
[by Heather Corinna], specifically about perimenopause.
Its very hip and has a lot of room for queer stuff.
Its the kind of book I was looking for.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
