You know the victims in this case were people like you and me.
And what these fraudsters were doing was striking at emotional pressure points.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:43] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
And she shared the video evidence she had with law enforcement.
[00:01:36] (newscast): We first alerted you to this scam targeting grandparents on Tuesday.
“She said to move your butt because they’re on a deadline.”
“Okay, have a great day.
“Thank you.”
“You, too.”
[00:02:15] Bob: Just as fast as she appears, the messenger is gone with the cash.
Often crimes like this go unsolved, but Brady and his law enforcement partners believe this situation is unique.
If they can find and arrest that messenger, it might lead to catching an entire criminal operation.
Afterall, that $9000 has to be going somewhere.
But investigators must proceed carefully.
She rented a car in another county.
She parked it around the block.
No small task during COVID times, when almost everyone is wearing a mask.
And I went, “Really?
Oh my gosh, that’s wonderful news.”
And, “Will you come down for a lineup?”
And I said, “Absolutely.”
It wasn’t easy.
And she has a mask on.
And I said, “That’s her.”
Just by her eyes.
[00:04:22] Bob: But even after the arrest, well the investigation proceeds slowly.
But at first, the messenger won’t squeal.
She, um, did not want to participate or to cooperate for quite some time.
[00:05:01] Brady Finta: Yeah, it was a big combination of investigative techniques.
[00:06:15] Brady Finta: One of them was a subject in the Phoenix area, a female.
[00:07:17] Bob: Had you ever arrested a great grandmother for money laundering before?
[00:07:21] Brady Finta: (chuckles) I never arrested a great grandmother for anything before.
Uh, I don’t know if that was a first.
[00:07:36] Bob: I know there are some situations where people do this unwittingly.
They’re, they’re asked to receive packages, and then reship the packages or whatnot.
And she initially denied it and then kept doing it anyway.
Is that how it went down?
[00:07:53] Brady Finta: That’s essentially how it went.
She was given the opportunity to cooperate, or just stop her legal activity.
She chose not to.
Can you tell me what she was doing precisely?
[00:09:19] Bob: Wow, that’s amazing.
And she knew she had $180,000?
Everyone involved gets to keep a nice chunk of money.
Not a bad day’s work.
Perhaps that’s why the crime web connection was unusually protective.
The FBI had a lot of trouble getting these criminals to divulge information about each other.
What I’ve also found is that doesn’t happen.
They leave them out to dry, so there’s also other things involved from this particular case.
The case is very complex, says US Attorney, Arun Rao.
He oversees the Consumer Protection Branch of the Civil Division at the Department of Justice.
And so that’s what made this case interesting to us.
[00:12:23] Bob: And he is anxious to bring the case, because the crimes are awful.
[00:12:28] Arun Rao: That was part of what drew us to this case.
You know the victims in this case were people like you and me.
And what these fraudsters were doing was striking at emotional pressure points.
They treat this crime ring like the mob.
It has been used to combat organized crime.
[00:16:00] Bob: Why is it as challenging as it is to build a case like this?
And so connecting these seemingly unrelated incidents can take a lot of work and a lot of time.
The federal case includes the indictment of eight individuals, six of them are arrested.
[00:17:57] Brady Finta: She was absolutely essential.
She was the lynchpin in the beginning of this case.
[00:18:28] Bob: But Susan doesn’t stop there.
[00:18:40] Bob: You need an anecdote to humanize things, don’t you?
[00:18:43] Brady Finta: Amen.
That all goes away as soon as you meet, as soon as you meet some of these victims.
And we saw the defendants.
There were three or four the day that I was there.
And they were sentenced, in one case 9 years, another case 4 years.
[00:20:47] Bob: Are they out of the country do you think?
[00:20:49] Brady Finta: It’s a possibility.
I don’t think we know exactly where they are.
A very little, but it’s still punishment for what she did.
[00:21:24] Bob: But that’s just the start of what justice looks like for the victims.
And I said, I didn’t really know that.
Not at the time, but I was finding that out through them.
[00:22:07] Susan Donald: I did.
[00:22:08] Bob: And now you’re going to be a poster child.
[00:22:10] Susan Donald: I am.
[00:22:11] Bob: A lot of people are going to think you’re a hero, Susan.
They dont even report it.
I, you know, I don’t mind being used so to speak.
I dont want the publicity.
What did you call me?
[00:22:57] Bob: A poster child.
[00:22:58] Susan Donald: A poster child.
That’s a big theme of our podcast.
[00:23:12] Susan Donald: Is it?
So …
[00:23:19] Susan Donald: Exactly.
[00:23:19] Bob: …you’re a hero to me.
[00:23:20] Susan Donald: Thank you.
[00:23:23] Bob: Meanwhile, Susan’s work with the FBI isn’t finished.
She made a trip to the FBI office in San Diego right before we spoke.
My daughter and I were interviewed.
It was an hour segment that they’ll be televising.
[00:24:10] Susan Donald: 81.
[00:24:12] Bob: You’re in your 80s.
Did you think when you got to your 80s that you’d be basically an FBI agent?
[00:24:16] Susan Donald: (chuckles) No, I hadn’t planned on that at all.
So Arun expects more of these prosecutions coming soon.
It won’t be easy though.
There’s still a number of obstacles to getting a hold on rampant scams like the grandparent scam.
That’s how we need to treat them.
[00:28:26] Bob: Let’s pretend that I am the ringleader of this crime.
Explain to me all that could have been stolen from you.
[00:28:35] Susan Donald: Wow.
But they know what was taken from me as I worked hard all my life.
I, I got an education, I’ve taken care of myself.
That’s the real crime here.
[00:29:59] Susan Donald: It breaks my heart that other people are affected by this.
I luckily came out of it pretty well, but that isn’t the bad part.
Then and that’s why people don’t mention it.
They don’t tell anyone.
[00:30:58] Susan Donald: It really is.
And because I, I would be guilty too.
And until you’re there, you, there’s nothing you’re free to say.
The second important thing uh, to remember from this particular case is the importance of talking to people.
And you should take a stab at seek advice and counsel from friends and relatives.
[00:33:46] Arun Rao: There’s a National Elder Fraud Hotline.
These are uh, experienced professionals.
And it’s available in English, Spanish, and other languages as well.
[00:34:35] Arun Rao: That’s right.
[00:34:37] Bob: Susan has a lot of advice to offer too.
For one, never give out personal information on the phone, even if it seems harmless.
She regrets saying to the criminal who called her first, “Is that you, Brandon?”
which tipped off the caller what the name of her grandchild is.
[00:34:55] Susan Donald: Don’t volunteer their name.
Don’t volunteer, you know, are you in Texas?
Get a name, a phone number, and hang up.
Then take a deep breath and follow-up with friends and family.
But that’s not the only turning point.
Brady told us he thinks this successful prosecution should be a moment when things change.
[00:36:38] Bob: I know you feel very passionately about this.
What do you mean by that?
It’s appropriate to use the RICO statute.
That’s a one-off.
Well what is the solution to making this more of the standard rather than the exception?
And I do have a lot of passion.
I couldn’t let him go without asking how that role helped him in his day job.
[00:40:57] Bob: But maybe it helped you understand the criminals a little bit though.
[00:41:01] Brady Finta: Yeah, no doubt.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web link Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
In Part 2, criminals are running the grandparent scam all over the San Diego area.
There is a video and an eyewitness.
Arresting the messenger who took Susans $9,000 might just bring down an entire criminal operation.
But investigators must proceed carefully.
