They realize this is more than just a crazy mix-up when a second person arrives expecting to move in.
I want the keys.
And then he’s not responding.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
Well, today we’re going to show you.
But let’s go back one step.
Why was he leaving Las Vegas?
[00:01:07] Phillip Rumple: Well for a few reasons.
One, I was tired of always burning up during the summer.
And I’m like, well, we should move to some place that has weather.
And by the time that we even finished considering it, my daughter had three job interviews.
So we were like, yep, this will work.
[00:01:40] Bob: Great, so Denver just had more opportunity for your kids.
[00:01:42] Phillip Rumple: Significantly more opportunities for both of them.
[00:01:52] Bob: Oh great, okay.
So, so give me a timeframe for when was it that you committed to moving to Denver?
[00:01:57] Phillip Rumple: (laughs) You’re going to laugh.
We talked about it in June of 2023.
We made up our minds somewhat in August, okay, like around August 2nd.
She was like, “Oh, I think we should do it.
Maybe we shouldn’t do it.
Maybe we are going to do it.”
And then she told her boss on August 4th, “We’re doing it.”
And after she told her boss, we’re like, okay, we’re leaving.
And then by that time in August we were out in Denver.
[00:02:22] Phillip Rumple: It’s actually again not uncommon.
I move around a lot.
So, for me, moving happens all the time.
[00:02:49] Bob: So Phillip started the process the way he always has.
So the MLS said, yes, it is a real place.
And yes, it is for rent, and it’s been on the market for about three months.
And I’m like, great, so everything’s really checking out with this.
[00:03:35] Bob: What did his family like about this house?
[00:03:38] Phillip Rumple: Well it was just this beautiful three-story home.
We had a beautiful uh drive-up, multi-car driveway and garage.
[00:04:00] Bob: So they reach out to the owner.
We’ve dealt with that many times before.
Who is the owner?
Can I get the owner’s contact information?
I’m like, yeah, we’re out of state.
And so then we proceeded to go down on that route.
Well, Phillip isn’t about to let that happen.
That you’re not going to get from a Zoom tour or anything else like that.
So you really do need to fly out.
But he really felt like he needed to see the place, see the neighborhood.
The timing isn’t quite right to meet the owner, but that’s okay.
So we decided to meet up with a real estate agent instead.
So Phillip goes to the site and they follow a pretty normal process for setting up the meeting.
You’re going to be arriving at this day.
I’ll be out here waiting for you.”
[00:06:43] Phillip Rumple: Typical agent.
[00:06:43] Bob: Tall, short?
[00:06:53] Bob: Hmm.
[00:06:54] Phillip Rumple: Always.
The real estate agents are always friendly, talkative, showing off the place, you know.
All the normal stuff.
[00:07:06] Phillip Rumple: Got in there, looked around.
Everything was great inside.
Then we were pretty much done.
It was a good hour, two, just being there looking around, experiencing the neighborhood.
I went to talk to the neighbors across the street to get more information about Russell and Charles.
He’s like, great.
All I need you to do is go ahead and put the down payment down and sign the lease.
And so we signed the lease, he sent it over to us.
I signed it, and then we sent him the down payment.
[00:08:08] Bob: So how did you pay?
[00:08:10] Phillip Rumple: So I paid with PayPal.
[00:08:11] Bob: And what was the total?
[00:08:18] Phillip Rumple: It was first month’s deposit and key rent.
[00:08:27] Phillip Rumple: We packed it all up and we put it in a U-Haul.
We cleaned everything and we drove out.
It would normally would take us 3 days; we did it in two.
I contacted him about the keys.
And I’m like, “Okay, works for me.”
[00:09:02] Bob: The family scrambles to set up their new digs.
I had a great office set up.
The kids were happy.
My youngest daughter was thrilled.
She had a whole basement to herself.
And it was just a great set up.
[00:09:18] Bob: And even the pets are happy.
[00:09:21] Phillip Rumple: They were running around.
My oldest cat was up in my room.
She didn’t really like traveling around the house so much, but she stayed mostly in my room.
But yeah, we have three cats; they were having a heyday.
Did you say, gosh, thank goodness that’s over?
[00:09:37] Phillip Rumple: I slept well.
[00:09:47] Bob: Everything seems fine.
But the next day comes and goes and the agent doesn’t come by with that key.
And then another day passes.
And still, no key.
I want the keys.
And then he’s not responding.
[00:10:10] Bob: They start getting knocks at the door?
Well the first knock comes about 72 hours after they move in.
And I’m like, “Well we already rented the place.
We’ve already got a signed lease and everything.”
And I’m like, “There must be some mistake,” and she just walked away.
[00:10:47] Bob: So that’s a bit more nerve-wracking.
[00:10:52] Phillip Rumple: The possibility was a mix-up.
Maybe they signed a lease beforehand and never followed through with it.
I’ve never been in that situation before, but it’s within the realm of possibility.
All with the same story.
[00:11:21] Phillip Rumple: The second day there was about four people that came over.
[00:11:24] Bob: That’s nuts.
[00:11:30] Phillip Rumple: I’m renting.
I have a lease.
I put a down payment on it.
I already put a security deposit down.
[00:11:35] Bob: Oh my God.
What do you tell them all?
But after the second person, I’m like, okay, this is just wrong.
[00:11:50] Bob: This is just wrong.
It’s their new home.
The kids love it.
The pets love it.
But now…
[00:11:57] Bob: Now you’re worried.
At what point do you share your worries with your kids?
[00:11:59] Phillip Rumple: I didn’t have to.
My kids were the ones that were answering the doors.
[00:12:03] Bob: Oh okay.
Just like, “Dad, there’s this woman here who says she lives here.”
And I’m like, “No, we have the lease.”
And they’re like, “Dad, just come over here.”
[00:12:47] Bob: From there the knocks on the door keep coming.
The home is starting to feel unsafe.
I’m like, what is going on?
Where is the information coming from?
[00:13:13] Bob: What’s a DAR number?
[00:13:14] Phillip Rumple: The Denver Real Estate Agent license number.
[00:13:17] Bob: Okay, yeah, sorry.
Her telephone number when you called it was disconnected.
Text messages wouldn’t go through.
And so I called Invitation Homes and I explained the situation to them.
[00:13:37] Bob: And when Phillip calls Invitation Homes, he gets some terrible news.
[00:13:53] Bob: You have been the victim of a scam?
The next call offers more clues.
[00:14:52] Bob: And finally, the really bad news arrives from Invitation Homes.
Because you’re still…
[00:15:07] Phillip Rumple: I was beyond livid.
I mean you’ve got the option to still hear the stress in my voice.
I’m still beyond livid that this even happened.
What are you thinking?
[00:15:39] Phillip Rumple: How?
The only thing that came to my mind was how?
There’s just zero way for me to do that.
So thank you for the 3-day quit, but how the heck am I supposed to do that?
But it wasn’t their problem, so there was no answer.
[00:16:22] Bob: But how could this have all happened?
How did that agent even get in?
[00:17:07] Bob: But more than one moved into a home and were squatting, right?
[00:17:10] Phillip Rumple: All but one.
All but one or two moved into the home.
You’ve probably used one if you’ve ever rented a place through a service like Airbnb.
They allow people to let guests in remotely.
Well rental companies are starting to embrace the technology now, but so are criminals.
[00:18:03] Phillip Rumple: A lot, yeah.
[00:18:08] Bob: We reached out to Invitation Homes to ask about Phillip and other victims.
They also said they take multiple precautions to keep criminals from using their homes for scams.
Phillip, meanwhile, has a very immediate problem.
Where will his family live?
What do you do?
[00:19:02] Phillip Rumple: I called my mom for one.
[00:19:26] Bob: The TV appearances work.
And with that 2500 from the community we were able to do that.
[00:19:44] Bob: And all that happened within the 72 hours they gave you.
[00:19:47] Phillip Rumple: All that happened within the 72 hours, yeah.
[00:19:49] Bob: Wow.
I mean you must have come right down to the wire though.
[00:19:59] Bob: Wow.
I’m getting so nervous just listening to this story.
I had to rent another U-Haul, I had the movers come back out and put it back in.
Didn’t have a destination.
So the house was empty and I was just waiting on what was going to happen next.
I heard your story, understand what’s going on, don’t care about the deposit.
I’ll work with you on it.
[00:20:36] Bob: But that’s not the end of the story for Phillip.
[00:20:41] Bob: Oh my God.
Okay, so that’s, that’s a happy ending.
[00:20:49] Phillip Rumple: I still wasn’t sleeping.
These people are still out there.
[00:21:08] Bob: I’m sure this became like a full-time job for you.
[00:21:10] Phillip Rumple: It was an obsession.
This woman was not overseas.
Do we have any idea who she was?
[00:21:59] Phillip Rumple: Fake, 100% totally fake.
Then we forwarded those informations on to the police as well.
[00:22:31] Bob: Stolen IDs, fake identities, smart locks.
What Phillip went through; this crime wouldn’t have been possible without today’s technologies.
[00:22:43] Phillip Rumple: No, it’s not possible without a smart lock.
I mean without that technology, none of this would exist.
[00:23:09] Bob: There is even more to the happy ending but it takes a while.
[00:23:14] Bob: What about the money?
Did you get any of the money back when you tried to dispute transactions or whatnot?
[00:23:19] Phillip Rumple: After about three months, the bank started slowly rolling back the transactions.
Initially, they denied all of it.
[00:23:44] Bob: But it took three months.
[00:23:45] Phillip Rumple: But it took three months for them to do that.
[00:23:46] Bob: Certainly at a time in your life when you didn’t have three months.
[00:23:49] Phillip Rumple: No, we didn’t have three months.
[00:23:52] Bob: How is Phillip now?
I want downtown, ‘cause it’s a better place.
Otherwise I’m fine.
I now work as a Chief Technology Officer for a major real estate company here in uh Denver.
That’s some irony for you.
And my daughter has got some job prospects out there for her.
[00:24:32] Bob: How are those other families who were also victims?
The lady that was in the domestic abuse shelter has her own place now, which is great.
Most of the people had good, positive outcomes being moved in by friends and families eventually.
[00:24:55] Bob: Let’s not sugarcoat it.
What a terrible way to start a new life in a new city.
[00:24:59] Phillip Rumple: It is.
I mean it’s horrible.
And if it wasn’t for the local community, we would still be down at that nothing.
So that’s one thing I’m very grateful for.
[00:25:16] Bob: I’m still floored.
So the criminals, in the end, the criminals stole close to $7000 from you, right?
[00:25:23] Phillip Rumple: Correct.
[00:25:52] Bob: What does Phillip want listeners to learn from his experience?
That doesn’t mean that it was the right information.
It was just information that was presented to me.
How do I verify this person?
How do I verify that this person is related to this product?
How do I verify this product is owned by this person?
That’s the best due diligence that you could have.
[00:26:51] Bob: Moving is incredibly stressful, especially if you have to move far away.
So it’s important to take every precaution you could.
And we want to help you with that.
So we invited Rhonda Perkins onto the show.
She’s also an expert on rental scams.
But even she was surprised by Phillip’s story.
We don’t usually hear about in a scam that’s quite that elaborate for rental listing scams.
[00:27:51] Bob: Okay, so it’s been a bit since I’ve rented an apartment.
Self-guided tours are a thing now, is that true?
[00:28:10] Bob: It absolutely makes sense to me.
They’re usually refusing to show them the property, which is a huge red flag.
[00:29:57] Bob: We often tell people to avoid making decisions under pressure.
Criminals can take advantage of high-pressure situations.
But it’s pretty normal when you’re moving that you’re under pressure.
So families who are moving are very vulnerable.
So that kind of speed also plays to the advantage of the criminals?
[00:31:44] Rhonda Perkins: Absolutely.
And this is why it’s so important for people to report these types of scams.
So this key in of scam really hurts everyone.
But she said something I think is really, really important you might apply to a lot of situations.
Do your research before you get emotionally attached.
[00:32:18] Rhonda Perkins: These people are professional.
They know what they’re doing, they know what buttons to push.
So take that time to look before you leap.
see to it you know who is actually supposed to be showing that listing, offering that listing.
What are the rents in the area?
Is this listing offering an unusually low rent compared to other listings nearby?
Do all that before you email or call the number, right?
And that’s a big deal too.
Moving is never fun.
But if a company is listed, for example, go to the company’s website.
confirm that the listing is there.
That does take a few minutes, but it’s better than paying for a phony listing.
[00:34:36] Bob: And what about where you look for rentals in the first place?
Does that make a difference?
So every place needs verification, right?
[00:35:20] Rhonda Perkins: Absolutely.
[00:35:38] Bob: Okay, so what other ways can you protect yourself when house hunting?
That’s a huge red flag.
That could be a scam.
Another red flag is how they insist that you pay.
You have to spend the money by this way for this account.
And they might have different reasons why you keep having to pay different fees to different accounts.
So these are all huge red flags.
[00:37:28] Bob: So that’s really interesting.
Because anyone can attach any name to an online listing.
So we want to verify this information from other sources.
[00:38:09] Rhonda Perkins: Right, because someone could put their own name in.
You definitely want to let the police know about that.
You want to report it to the website where the phony listing was listed.
Report to the FTC, reportfraud.ftc.gov, and report it to your state attorney general.
So that’s number one - reporting.
Also, talk about it.
Talk to people in your community so that they can avoid this as well.
Maybe they’re not receiving consumer alerts.
And if you did lose money to something like this, double-check you ping the company however you paid.
It can be really hard to get your money back in the way that scammers want you to pay.
[00:41:26] Bob: If there’s just one takeaway from our conversation, it’s this.
[00:41:58] Bob: If they won’t give you 10 or 15 minutes, walk away.
I know it’s hard.
For The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
