[00:00:03] People have such a fundamental and deep need for social and intimate connection with others.
[00:00:26] Michelle: Welcome back to AARP’sThe Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Michelle Kosinski.
This week turning the tables on your scammer even when you happen to be madly with love with them.
Yes, it is!
But then turned it around.
Have you heard her story?
If not, you should probably, because she is great.
So, to our scam.
This one brings us out to California.
She also does a lot of charity work for kids in her homeland.
You know, you are still young and all that.
[00:02:20] Patricia: No!
I didn’t even know the term “catfish.”
[00:02:36] Patricia: And I was like, well, goodie, this is a good website.
[00:02:47] Michelle: Oh, wow.
[00:02:49] Patricia: He was good.
If I say he was good, he was good.
You remember, I am a very educated person.
So that was a checkmark.
[00:03:22] Michelle: Oh my gosh.
(giggle)
[00:03:30] Michelle: Scary.
Almost uncanny the way they clicked.
He’s like, “Oh, you know what?
And I was excited.
I was like, yay!
I did not know that that’s actually a trick that they use.
But it’s a trick they use.
So I got off.
[00:04:19] Patricia: Right.
[00:04:20] Michelle: Okay.
[00:04:21] Michelle: But at the time, Patricia doesn’t think anything of it.
He’s handsome and smart and interesting.
And he seems really into her.
I’m, I’m eating them up.
I told him where I live, so he knew where I lived.
And looking on the map, it actually was.
He tells her when he’s driving to the airport and the timing is right on.
She even researches his flight when it would take off and land.
It all checks out perfectly.
[00:06:01] Michelle: How often were you in contact?
Were you texting every day?
[00:06:04] Patricia: Every day?
So many times in a day.
[00:06:07] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:06:07] Patricia: What did I like about him?
He was an alpha male to some extent, yet soft.
[00:06:35] Michelle: Got it.
(giggle)
[00:06:45] Michelle: So he seemed like s smart guy.
[00:06:47] Patricia: He did.
[00:06:49] Michelle: They have long, deep phone conversations.
Jeff is also, though, pretty early on, kind of possessive of Patricia.
Doesn’t want her to go out with other people, even though they had never met.
[00:07:01] Patricia: He would say, “Oh, but you’re my woman now.
I’m like, “Okay.”
He would be like, “Can you make a run at be home by 9 o’clock?
Youre my woman, I don’t want you to be out there.”
Anybody that knows me knows 9 o’clock can never be a time for me at home.
[00:07:29] Michelle: How soon did you start to feel feelings of love towards this person?
[00:07:53] Michelle: Sure.
Did any of that, at the time, seem too good to be true?
“Man, he sounds fake, but okay.”
I was too happy for them to then bring me down.
[00:08:47] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:08:56] Michelle: And then Jeff leaves for this business trip to the Middle East.
It does take 15 hours from where our airport is to where he was going.
I’m like, " Well what do you mean you’re in trouble?”
Officials telling him he didn’t have the proper authentication for the stones.
They might not be real.
This is a big deal.
[00:10:20] Patricia: Now, I went into panic mode.
[00:10:53] Michelle: It’s panic.
Jeff is supposed to be coming home the next day.
He and Patricia were going to meet for the first time.
They had a massage planned at a spa and a movie date.
Patricia has been beside herself with anticipation and joy, about to see her love in person at last.
And now that was all replaced with worry and urgency to get this solved.
[00:11:18] Patricia: I didn’t even think twice.
I’m like, “Oh yeah, yeah, sure.
Where, where can I send the money?”
Now, just so you know, that was my rent money.
It was supposed to pay my rent.
In my head, I’m already fallen for this person.
[00:11:39] Patricia: She sends it to Jeff’s supposed friend in the US.
So after all that, he needs to stay there to sort this out.
[00:11:57] Patricia: I’m like, “Oh, okay, okay, sure.”
Can you send me some money?”
At that time he needed $400.
So I was like, wait, $400?
You’re a millionaire, you cannot have your friend, your millionaire friends to actually help you?
So yo, help me out if it’s possible for you to."
[00:12:48] Michelle: So he had an excuse for everything.
[00:12:51] Patricia: Oh, c’mon, he had a good explanation for everything.
But that second time is when I started putting my head up.
[00:13:08] Michelle: So Patricia has already sent him her rent money, nearly $1000.
Now she wires $400 more.
Somehow, her guard goes back up.
Patricia now has a request, really a demand, of her own.
She needs to see him, live, on the phone, now.
What Jeff shows her, though, are more excuses.
[00:13:47] Patricia: “Oh, listen, so I don’t have a video.
My phone is not that kind of phone.
Um, my phone is a little cheap one.”
I’m thinking, wait, you’re a millionaire and you have a cheap phone?
You don’t have a video?
So everything started up.
When I kept asking him those things, they started really putting together.
[00:14:02] Michelle: Ah.
How can I…" now remember, almost we’re hitting a month at this time.
[00:14:12] Michelle: So you, you had only known him for a month when this happened.
[00:14:15] Patricia: At this time, um-hmm.
[00:14:17] Michelle: Meanwhile, there in California, Patricia’s friends are confused and worried.
They’ve been practically begging her to get rid of Jeff.
They smell a scam even without knowing all the details.
They gave me three warnings.
“Never talk to somebody who asks you for money.”
“Be careful if it’s somebody online because there, there are many scammers out there.”
I was like, “Okay.”
[00:15:08] Michelle: Oh, yeah.
[00:15:09] Michelle: Patricia is a very giving, charitable person.
She comes from a kind family.
[00:15:52] Patricia: And he, almost like jumped up.
“No, you cannot tell your mom.
You cannot tell your friends about us.
You cannot…” I’m like, “Well, well, okay, okay.”
He’s like, “No, you’re able to’t.”
Then he caught himself, “No, okay, no, no, no.
[00:16:12] Michelle: That was it.
Inside her mind something has to happen here.
[00:16:17] Patricia: So then I demanded.
So I said, “Listen, that was my money for my rent that I gave you.
I’m going to be evicted out of my apartment because I gave you that money.
I need to see you.
I demand to see you on video.”
It was…(rooster crowing)…roosters, crowing somewhere behind him.
Somehow, she just can’t reconcile roosters with a swanky hotel in Dubai.
[00:17:14] Patricia: I’m like, wait a minute.
We know those things very well.
You don’t want to talk to me, I’m not going to talk to you anymore.
She decides instead to sweet talk this liar and criminal into showing his face.
[00:17:41] Patricia: And I started soothing his ego.
“Oh, you know what, I don’t care who you are.
I just fell for you.
It’s the voice, it’s the words, it’s you.
“I just wanted to call you and just say I love you.”
And I’m like, oh my God, I’m marrying this guy, you know.
[00:18:05] Michelle: Yeah.
And he ate it up.
[00:18:23] Michelle: Jeff listens, and it finally works.
[00:18:28] Patricia: And he put his ugly face on video.
Oh, I put him down very quickly.
[00:18:44] Michelle: That’s amazing.
[00:19:01] Patricia: I was not happy.
I was not happy.
I was like, listen, first of all, he was almost like a kid.
If anything, he was like 32 years old.
[00:19:32] Michelle: How did you feel at that moment?
It must have broken your heart to know that this person you loved was not the person you thought.
[00:19:46] Michelle: I’m sorry.
[00:19:47] Patricia: So, it did, but maybe for like a second.
I don’t think it lasted long.
So when I saw him, it didn’t even feel sad.
[00:20:03] Michelle: Good for you.
[00:20:03] Patricia: Then it was like, okay, okay, okay.
It was like, oh, you’re good.
So I went back into the mode, I’m like, “You’re good.”
So I started…
[00:20:09] Michelle: Did he, did he apologize?
Did he say anything?
[00:20:13] Patricia: Yes, he did.
[00:20:14] Michelle: Oh wow.
But she wants more.
[00:20:32] Patricia: You were so good.
Tell me exactly how, I mean, you told me the distance between Morgan Hill and the airport.
You told me the delayed flight.
You had showed me all these pictures of you.
You did… tell me.”
We literally study people.”
I was like, “Ah, so then you studied me.”
He’s like, “Yeah.
[00:21:08] Michelle: Oh God.
Did he seem to feel sorry at all?
[00:21:12] Patricia: He did.
So I blocked him.
[00:21:30] Michelle: Fake Jeff continues to give a shot to talk to Patricia through other numbers.
It takes a long time for her to finally shake this guy.
[00:21:38] Michelle: Do you think that he fell in love with you, too?
[00:21:42] Patricia: (sigh) Eww, I have not allowed myself to think that.
[00:21:55] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:21:56] Patricia: Like I will see you as a liar, period.
[00:21:58] Michelle: Right.
[00:22:09] Michelle: All told, this online relationship, while intense, lasted about 212 months.
[00:22:20] Patricia: Oh yeah.
[00:22:53] Patricia: This actually gets into you being a human being.
Because you’re smart, yes.
I’m a neuroscientist, yes, I am this, right.
[00:23:17] Michelle: Since this experience, Patricia has actually encountered two more romance scammers online.
She says one was just a week before we spoke to her.
[00:23:27] Michelle: Oh, and you could just tell, you could tell instantly?
[00:23:30] Patricia: Oh, yo.
No, now I demand for a video in a heartbeat.
And the ones who shower you with complements, like they’re head over heels in love quickly.
[00:23:53] Patricia: Right.
One, don’t give up on love, because we’ve also heard sexist stories, okay?
But have your guard up five, six, ten times high.
Have everybody guilty until proven innocent.
Patricia sees those conversations with Jeff so much differently now.
[00:24:21] Patricia: No, he told me his wife died.
[00:24:24] Michelle: Oh, okay.
[00:24:25] Patricia: (laugh)
[00:24:26] Michelle: Now you laugh, like hah!
[00:24:27] Patricia: Oh, I said, oh no!
(laugh) I know.
They are so good.
[00:24:38] Michelle.
What do you think about someone who does this, who would do this to another person?
You don’t want to play on somebody’s heart who wants to go be loved.
[00:24:58] Michelle: It’s so cruel.
You always have to point it two ways.
[00:25:34] Michelle: Thank you so, so much.
[00:25:37] Patricia: Thank you.
[00:25:37] Michelle: And great luck to you.
[00:25:39] Patricia: Thank you.
So let’s bring in someone who knows a lot about these scams.
[00:26:08] Michelle: Well you really have the fun part of psychology, don’t you?
[00:26:11] Dr. Justin Lehmiller: I do.
[00:26:12] Michelle: So romance scams.
We see so many of these.
[00:27:28] Michelle: Why does passion do that to people?
How is that possible?
But the scammer found the right answers.
[00:31:33] Michelle: Everybody can be susceptible to that, can’t they?
[00:31:36] Dr. Justin Lehmiller: Absolutely.
Can this really affect someone long term emotionally?
[00:33:26] Michelle: Wow.
That’s really interesting.
And, and you could understand how that would happen.
What, what is it in their psychology that allows them to do this to another human being?
[00:34:32] Michelle: Well, Doctor, thank you so much.
[00:34:36] Michelle: His expert advice: number one, slow down in relationships.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’sThe Perfect Scam, I’m Michelle Kosinski.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
After a rough divorce, Patricias friends encourage her to try online dating.
There she meets Jeff, who passes himself off as a wealthy businessman.
The two share similar interests and after an online courtship, Patricia falls for him.
But every time the two plan to meet in person, Jeff cancels.
Then, while on a business trip to Dubai, Jeff says he needs Patricia to send him money.
Patricia begins to get suspicious.
Certain her online boyfriend is a con artist, she decides to convince him to reveal his true identity.
AARPs Fraud Watch web link can help you spot and avoid scams.
