The search engines are being manipulated, leveraged for nefarious purposes.
And you’re not.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:37] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
Im your host, Bob Sullivan.
If you’ve heard it from me once, you’ve heard it a thousand times.
This advice is very, very crucial.
But in today’s story we’re going to go just a little bit deeper on this advice.
How do you find a number that is valid?
It’s sometimes called malvertising, malicious advertising.
And when that happens, disaster can follow.
[00:01:49] Bob: I’m so sorry.
[00:01:52] Thank you, thank you for that.
So I have three children at this time.
[00:02:00] Bob: That’s Marcia Smith who lives just outside San Diego.
Marcia is a mom, a grandmom, a great grandmother, and family is everything to her.
[00:02:36] Bob: That sounds like a pretty busy uh, uh birthday card list.
[00:02:39] Marcia Smith: (chuckling) You know, you hit the nail on the head.
‘Cause I’m very adamant about sending cards.
[00:02:56] Bob: And this birthday card list keeps getting longer.
[00:03:18] Bob: But only a few days before, right?
[00:03:21] Marcia Smith: A week to two weeks, hmm-hmm.
[00:03:24] Bob: I’m so, so, that just sounds so painful.
I’m so sorry.
[00:03:27] Marcia Smith: It, it was.
It, it is.
[00:04:06] Marcia Smith: I had not gotten a gift.
And he discriminated between birthday cakes, you know, to that extent.
So that’s what I was trying to do that morning of the 22nd.
She wasn’t sure though, how does one order a cheesecake like that?
[00:05:07] Bob: Yeah, you had called Amazon before for something.
And of course, I had not.
And so he did.
[00:06:25] Bob: So concerned that the birthday gift immediately goes on the back burner.
[00:06:49] Marcia Smith: Well, and, and never did receive one by the way.
Um…
[00:06:53] Bob: Oh no!
[00:07:03] Bob: Your day took a, a very hard left turn though, right?
[00:07:05] Marcia Smith: Yes.
My life did actually, hmm-hmm.
[00:08:11] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:08:12] Marcia Smith: In my name.
That they had opened the account in my name.
That’s, that’s terrible.
And I, I thought that perhaps it was going to even go that far.
[00:08:43] Bob: Oh God.
[00:08:54] Bob: What did he say, how was he going to help you?
So they take all these items and they take them off, and then they put them back on.
And I think that’s what he was suggesting.
[00:09:50] Bob: I mean those transactions can look really complicated.
Normally I never jump in the car and go a distance.
I plan it, but I did it.
And it was rather late in the day, maybe almost closing.
And she said, “We usually like to have a phone call in advance.”
And I said, “Oh, I didn’t realize that.”
And I said, “Oh no, I’ll dole it out as needed.”
She said, “I’m relieved that she’s at least, you know, close.”
I want to mention also something that is pretty significant.
And I was anxious to move on and get to where he wanted me to go next.
So, put the box right on my front seat.
[00:15:14] Bob: Things don’t go as planned, however.
So he, he tried to coach me through it.
I had to keep doing it over and over and put this in and put that in.
Finally it rejected it because of my expired driver’s license.
Now I had to call the number.
Now I had to wait for a response.
That went on and on.
I think I was in there for up to four hours I probably was dealing with this issue.
[00:16:02] Bob: Oh my God, no.
So I get more anxious standing if I’m not moving, if I’m not active.
And so I was very uncomfortable to say the least.
And that took quite a little while.
And it was dark, and it was late.
So he said, “Just put it in.”
[00:17:12] Bob: So Marcia has to drive home with the rest of the cash that night.
She is flustered, but David Miller has come up with another way to transfer Marcia’s money.
[00:17:24] Marcia Smith: He did, yes, in the morning, hmm-hmm.
[00:17:26] Bob: And at this time, you’re still dealing with David Miller, right?
[00:17:28] Marcia Smith: Yes, I am.
I was worried that he would think I was lying, you know, about that.
[00:18:43] Bob: He knew what you were going through.
[00:18:44] Marcia Smith: Hmm-hmm.
[00:18:47] Marcia Smith: Hmm-hmm.
[00:18:59] Marcia Smith: Well he sent the courier.
So then David Miller called me and then he said, “Don’t worry, don’t worry.
I can get him back.”
I put the money out.
He came up the stairs again.
I still didn’t hear him.
Criminals are still using her bank account.
[00:20:30] Bob: David wants Marcia to move another $37,000.
But this time he tells her it’ll be easier.
She can wire the money, but he tells her to go to a different branch of the bank.
[00:20:43] Bob: Wow.
And had you ever wired money like that before?
[00:20:46] Marcia Smith: No.
The recipient had a Chinese name.
So I did manage to do that.
I think it was a culmination of things.
I never told my family anything.
He said, “Don’t call them, don’t use your phone.
Disconnect your landline.”
It just came over me.
[00:23:39] Bob: But what does she do with these concerns?
Who does she call?
At this point, Marcia seems sure David Miller can listen in on her conversations.
That was late on Friday of the 25th.
So I said, “You know, I’m not going to file a report now.
I want to call the bank because they’re going to close.”
And then I called the bank.
[00:24:36] Bob: So she calls the bank then, and that doesn’t go well.
[00:24:41] Marcia Smith: I spoke to a total of a minimum of three people that evening.
The bank took down the information in a cursory way.
Several people at the bank tell her there’s nothing they can do.
And this was Monday.
[00:26:01] Bob: Right, timing is of the essence here.
That’s really unfortunate.
[00:26:04] Marcia Smith: Yes.
And so I did speak with someone in the wire recall department.
She did give me a number.
And that’s why I ended up having that wire recall person speak to me.
[00:26:54] Bob: But it’s too late.
By Monday, she’s told the wire can’t be stopped.
I had filed a particular important form for the FBI, for what end result, I not sure.
Certainly so far, not to my own benefit.
And there’s also a new baby in the family.
I mean of course they’re connected, right?
You are in denial, you know, you’re being strong.
[00:29:42] Bob: This is a lot of money to you, right?
[00:29:44] Marcia Smith: It’s a lot of money.
[00:30:58] Bob: This criminal stole the money that your, your parents provided for you.
[00:31:02] Marcia Smith: Exactly.
[00:31:04] Bob: Yet another trauma Marcia has to live through now.
Legitimate companies won’t make these requests.”
[00:31:38] Bob: There’s just so many frustrating things about Marcia’s story.
What if the bank acted quicker to recall her transfer, or police responded more aggressively?
This situation is more common than you’d think.
The Federal Trade Commission issued a warning about it back in 2020.
But it’s not just Amazon.
It’s sometimes call malvertising, malicious advertising.
My next guest has written extensively about this problem, particularly in the travel industry.
[00:32:44] I’m Christopher Elliott, and I’m a consumer advocate.
[00:32:54] Bob: How long have you been doing this consumer advocate thing?
And so that’s where the scammers see an opportunity.
[00:33:36] Bob: And, and how does it work?
[00:34:31] Bob: Give me examples of companies that you have heard this happening to.
But it’s happening all over.
[00:34:50] Bob: And the end result can be as painful as what happened to Marcia.
[00:34:55] Bob: But how common is a story like that?
How often do you hear something like that?
[00:34:59] Christopher Elliott: It’s too common.
It’s, unfortunately, way too common.
I mean I get emails like this on a fairly regular basis.
The search engines are being manipulated, leveraged for nefarious purposes.
And you’re not.
We need to act right now before more damage is done.
And then a bogus phone number will come up, and you’ve just been scammed.
[00:37:36] Christopher Elliott: That’s absolutely true.
[00:37:48] Bob: So what’s the right way to get through to customer service?
So instead, go directly to the company’s website.
I’ll give you a little hack.
And so you know that you’re, you’re not going outside of that website.
You’re just searching the company’s website for a customer service phone number.
That’s what I would do.
Go online and find the phone number.
Well, they can’t quite go online and find the phone number.
Now they have to do it a particular way and remember it in the middle of this crisis.
I feel like that’s a, even more of a challenge for some people.
[00:39:52] Christopher Elliott: Oh it is.
People should not have to do this.
It, it’s terrible that we have to give all this advice.
We should be able to trust a search engine.
Calling isn’t necessarily the best way.
You want to stay off the phone.
And the build on that paper trail, wait for their response.
Give the company a little bit of time.
You know build, build your case.
This is a lot like a, a court case.
The scammers are preying on people who desperately need an answer right now.
[00:42:08] Christopher Elliott: There’s almost always a better way.
You know if you’re, oh, here’s another one.
If your washing machine exploded and you gotta know what to do next, by all means.
If you’re stuck by the roadside and you should probably call your car insurance company, yeah.
Usually everything can be done by text, in a chat, or in an email.
[00:42:53] Christopher Elliott: That is absolutely true.
it’s possible for you to’t google a phone number and trust the results.
If they call, don’t keep talking to them.
Or maybe the number on your monthly statement that you get in the mail.
They are available Monday through Friday from 8am to 8 pm and the work they do is wonderful.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch data pipe Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
But can you trust an internet search to find a valid number?
