Did they mix up his body?
Did they lose his body?
Little did I know what really happened.
Really the, the horror, the nightmare was yet to come.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:00:37] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
It’s very hard to talk about end of life issues, but it’s incredibly important.
And this is the kind of story we can all learn from.
So let’s get started.
Meet Diana McBride, stepdaughter of a man who has a great nickname.
It was a name he got when he got out of the Marines.
He sort of reminded people of like one of those big saguaro cactus.
[00:02:07] Bob: (laugh) I can picture that.
Um, was he also prickly like that?
[00:02:20] Diana McBride: I believe it was for six years, six or more years.
He served in the Korean War.
[00:02:27] Bob: Cactus was a big man with a very big personality.
And my sister and I were very young.
I think I was around 7 years old at the time.
And he would do, he’s a larger than life character, and he was very entertaining.
[00:03:02] Bob: Wow.
[00:03:08] Diana McBride: Exactly.
[00:03:47] Bob: Uh-huh, sure.
[00:03:52] Bob: That is a very remote part of America.
Why did they move there?
[00:03:55] Diana McBride: Well my aunt and uncle lived in Montrose.
The whole time we grew up, we would go there and visit them.
They call Ridgeway the Little Switzerland of the West.
It’s very scenic country.
My mom’s been there now for gosh, over 30 years.
[00:05:18] Bob: A few years ago, Cactus got sick.
And they both knew that they wanted to be cremated.
So that was something my Mom knew for a very long time.
[00:06:49] Bob: Unfortunately, Shirley had to put this plan into action much sooner than expected.
He hadn’t been hospitalized.
But he had not been in the hospital.
So when he passed away, it was somewhat sudden.
[00:07:56] Diana McBride: I was.
It’s her birthday.
I’ll let her know tomorrow."
But, of course my sister, you know, wouldn’t have that.
So my sister contacted me to let me know that he had passed away.
[00:08:22] Bob: Mom, independent Mom, already had a plan for taking care of everything.
She said, “I have it all taken care of, Diana.
She said, “Dont worry, I have it all taken care of.
You don’t need to come immediately.
I would really wish that you would wait a few days and not come right away.”
So I wasn’t there when he was cremated.
You have to know my mom to know she’s very specific how she does things.
She’s very stubborn.
Like, “I need to be there to help you.”
“No, no, I’m going to pick him up next Thursday from the funeral home.”
[00:09:39] Bob: She’d pick up Cactus next Thursday for a very specific reason.
[00:10:03] Bob: Megan is Megan Hess, the owner of Sunset Mesa Funeral Home.
Shirley needs the death benefit check to pay for the cremation.
You know, “I’m here to pick up Gerald Hollenback.”
And she said, “No, I can’t get a hold of Megan.
Megan is out of town.
She went to Hawaii, and she’s not coming back till Tuesday.”
So that particular weekend, the Thursday my mom was there was the Thursday before Memorial Day weekend.
I, I told Megan I was coming today to get him.”
And she said, “No, I can’t contact her.
I’m sorry, we, we, we can’t find him.”
And uh, “You’ll have to come back next Tuesday when Megan’s here.”
And I said, “Well Mom, what do you mean?”
I said, “This really concerns me.”
Did they mix up his body with somebody?
[00:12:25] Bob: So Diana hangs up with her mom and immediately thrusts herself into research mode.
And so I did a lot of research about how proper cremations are done, and the identification process.
You know, she’s just gone through a lot.
And you know, don’t freak her out.
So I kind of reined it back in.
[00:13:34] Bob: Diana wants to confirm she isn’t necessarily causing her mom more pain.
[00:13:39] Bob: I understand your dilemma.
[00:13:46] Diana McBride: That’s exactly true, Bob.
I really did, I kept thinking if I was there, none of this would have happened.
And I’m going to take care of this."
My mom was actually concerned that I might upset or offend Megan.
[00:15:10] Diana McBride: Yeah, it, it is.
I mean it, it kind of gives you an insight, you know, to her personality.
But Megan was very defensive with me immediately, and again, I took the same posture with her.
I just said, “You know, I’m really trying to help my mom here.
And she interrupted me immediately and said, “No, no, no.
It isn’t that we couldn’t find him, it was a paperwork issue.
I was out of town, I left town for the weekend, and I wasn’t there.
Your mom came on the wrong day.”
And right away that upset me, because I thought, no, no, no.
My mother did not come on the wrong day.
My mom’s very specific.
We all knew the day that she was going to come.
And she said, “The issue is, is it was a paperwork issue.
And I said, “Well no, that’s not what the young gal told my mom.
She told her that she couldn’t find him.”
“No, no, that is not the case.
It’s a paperwork issue, but I’m back now.
Everything will be fine, and uh, we’re very busy.
Is that, is that okay?”
And, and I, I just thought this is not, something is not right here.
And she did not answer me.
She just kept saying, “No, everything will be fine.
Yes, yes, I, I have everything together.
Everything will be fine.”
“Diana, don’t you worry, it will be fine.
The cremation cost is well above, I gave her a special deal.
So everything about that phone call just really upset me even further.
[00:18:50] Bob: Diana calls her mom to give her the update.
And I said, “I want her to assure you of that.”
And she said, “Okay, I will, I will.”
[00:19:50] Bob: So Diana sits and waits to hear what happened back in Colorado.
But eventually she calls her Mom.
I know I have Cactus ‘cause it’s so heavy, the box is so heavy.”
‘Cause you know my stepdad was, was a big guy.
It’s all my fault, Shirley.
I had him in my safe.
She told me it was a paperwork issue.
And I said, “Mom, that’s weird.”
She said, “Why would they put Cactus in her safe?”
“That’s why they couldn’t find him, Diana.
She had him in her safe.”
You tell me where you want him.”
I didn’t realize he was in the military.
I, I can get you a flag, Shirley.”
Diana can’t resist asking just a couple of questions.
Did she go through that with you?"
“No, there’s, she didn’t show me any numbers.”
And she said, “Well it’s a big box.
It’s a big cardboard box.”
And I said, “And did you look inside?”
“Yes,” she said, “there’s a big, thick plastic bag in there.”
And I said, “Well how is it sealed?”
And she said, “With a twist tie.”
And I said, “What, what do you mean a twist tie?”
I said, “Does it have a metal tag attached to it?”
“No, there’s no metal tag.”
I said, “Well what kind of twist tie are you talking about?”
And I, I was very upset.
[00:23:32] Bob: Oh my God.
[00:23:37] Diana McBride: Exactly.
He agreed too, he said, “Something is not right.
And after he and I talked though, he said, “Diana, something went wrong.
They either, either mixed up the bodies, they’re not organized there.”
So I really had to make a conscious decision to just sort of let it go.
And that was it.
That was the entire container, identification, et cetera.
She doesn’t share any of her concerns with her mom.
Did they mix up his body?
Did they lose his body?
You know I, little did I know what really happened.
Really the, the horror, the nightmare was yet to come.
And that it pertained to Gerald Hollenback and Sunset Mesa Funeral Home.
And she said, “I don’t know what this, this gentleman wants.”
I don’t want you to deal with it.”
[00:27:35] Bob: Of course it does.
How could it not?
None of this would have happened without Brian Grow’s investigation."
Um, so I’m sorry for a second here.
Um…
[00:28:00] Bob: Take, take your time.
[00:28:05] Brian Grow: My name is Brian Grow.
We’re always on that sort of a cycle.
And as you’ve got the option to imagine I said, what is this business?
Can you go find out more?"
And that was the beginning of the process.
[00:29:30] Bob: Indeed, what is this business?
[00:29:34] Bob: This is one of those stories where your first reaction is, what?
That people sell body parts?
[00:29:43] Brian Grow: Exactly.
And they are two very different things.
They are very different from a regulatory standpoint.
Organ donation is heavily regulated, the government is directly involved.
The body donation industry, which is selling body parts for medical education and research, is virtually unregulated.
It targets its messaging to people who can’t otherwise afford a burial or cremation very often.
You don’t get to choose what part of the body is going where.
The hardest part of that reporting, Bob, was that many of the people didn’t know.
They just received some cremated remains thinking that everything had gone as promised.
And I was the one that had to inform them about that as part of the interview process.
And ultimately, it was clear that they didn’t know; they were making assumptions.
His wife was with him, comforted him, and said, “You did nothing wrong.
They didn’t tell you the truth.”
But this is the hardest part of the reporting of the series, Bob.
He planned to interview her.
Meaning, you know, on the one side of the business, you’re providing burial and cremation.
On the other side of the business, you’re selling off the body parts.
[00:35:04] Bob: It wasn’t easy to get Megan on the record.
And as you might imagine, that resistance raised additional suspicion.
And there were already question marks around uh, how this was being run.
Well our research indicated that there is no such thing as a PhD in Mortuary Science.
And we talked to experts.
And they said, “No.
It doesn’t exist.”
You know, so right there we had a falsehood.
So we knew something wasn’t quite right here.
So, he starts looking for more people to interview.
[00:36:30] Brian Grow: And ultimately I decided to talk to people who had worked there.
And I just left it right there.
And I was able to cross reference obituaries that matched up with that limited detail.
So what does the enterprising reporter decide to do?
Will Diana and her mom ever find out what really happened to Cactus?
And what was really going on inside Sunset Mesa?
That’s next week on The Perfect Scam.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web connection Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
(MUSIC OUTRO)
[00:40:05] Bob: Hi everybody.
So here is Today’s Tips from AARP.
[00:40:40] These are Today’s Tips from AARP.
It also can help protect you from hackers and identity theft.
[00:41:22] First, reset the data that’s a magnet for cybercrime.
I know this sounds tedious, so here’s an extra incentive.
Clearing out your data can help your devices run faster too.
[00:42:01] Our second tip: Delete what drains your energy.
That’s your cue to uninstall the social media apps that you find stressful from your phone.
Or cancel those accounts altogether.
And this goes without saying, but don’t use the same password for every account.
Clear any data that you don’t use and delete what drains your energy.
Then change your passwords if you haven’t in the past three months.
[00:43:29] Those are Today’s Tips from AARP.
For more advice to help you strengthen your health, money, and happiness, visit AARP.org.
