Said he’d been in a car accident and needed money.
So Josh turned the experience into an award-winning movie called, “Thelma.”
And the movie recently won an AARP Movies for Grownups Award as The Best Intergenerational Movie.
In the film it’s fiction but based very much on the real Thelma’s experience.
Anyone who’s ever been a crime victim is rooting for Thelma and that scooter I can tell you.
(MUSIC SEGUE)
[00:01:17] Bob: I just fell in love with this movie.
We do this once a week, but you did such a great…
I fell in love with Thelma in 10 seconds.
[00:01:37] Josh Margolin: Oh, thank you so much.
[00:01:39] Bob: And oh no, the whole thing is so warm.
And again, you crystalized that so well.
How, why did you approach this subject with such tenderness the way you did?
And when this scam incident occurred in real life, she was so thrown.
[00:03:18] Josh Margolin: Exactly.
But yes, luckily, she didn’t end up actually sending it.
[00:03:42] Bob: And like in the movie, several family members were roped into the story.
[00:03:47] (clip) Gail, something has happened!
Who did you talk to?
Oh Gail, he was so upset.
He was so upset.
I am calling him right now.
Oh my God, he’s not picking up.
I’ll try the house line.
Oh my God, uh Mom, Allen is calling.
I’ll call you back.
What’s going on?
My mother had a call from Daniel.
And he’s in jail, and someone broke his nose.
Who told her that?
She spoke to him and I tried calling and I can’t get him.
And he’s not picking up his phone?
No, I’m trying again.
Okay, I’m getting in the car.
Let me know what you hear.
[00:04:36] Josh Margolin: Yeah?
Exactly, my parents got convinced.
She had picked up on what was going on.
And then luckily, they were able to reach my girlfriend who was awake before me.
I was true to form, um, and everything.
We were able to resolve it.
But it did yeah, spread throughout the family first.
[00:05:23] Bob: So this movie’s for her.
[00:05:24] Josh Margolin: This movie’s for her, yeah.
[00:06:35] (Clip) Mom, did you really think it was Daniel?
And how did you think this was real?
Mom, you thought it was real too.
Well she was very convincing.
Well she was scared, your mother, we were all scared.
I wasn’t quite as scared, just for the record.
We’ll see what happens when you get a call, buddy.
I wouldn’t be fooled.
My mind is sharp as a tack.
I said I wouldn’t be fooled.
My mind is sharp as a tack.
What’s he saying?
He’s making a joke.
Do you want to retry?
What’s the joke, Allen?
There was no joke.
Well, you know, it was a close call, but it’s over now.
I am so embarrassed.
No… don’t be.
She’s 104 now, and she’s living with my parents now.
[00:07:49] Bob: God bless her, that is amazing.
[00:07:50] Josh Margolin: It’s crazy.
And then she, yeah, moved in with my folks and then has been there ever since.
[00:08:05] Bob: What did she think of the movie?
[00:08:07] Josh Margolin: She fortunately, she liked the movie.
[00:08:16] Josh Margolin: Yes, there, it was definitely scary.
‘Cause I think she was like, oh, you’re making a movie out of this?
I don’t know where it’s going to go ‘cause there’s not a lot there.
And I was like I think there’s something there.
So she was dubious of there being enough of a story there.
[00:08:42] Bob: Did you think much about scams before this experience?
[00:08:45] Josh Margolin: Not really.
What did you do to prep for the script?
I think I; I recorded her at one point.
[00:09:32] Josh Margolin: Yeah, they are.
So we harp all the time on this podcast about the problem of victim blaming language.
It’s only natural to say, “How could you?”
We always talk about this.
It, it helps the criminals because it’s an incentive for people to stay quiet.
Where did you get that sensibility from?
It, it’s so easy to get scared and get frustrated.
[00:13:27] Bob: Yeah, yeah.
So did you learn anything about the way scams work during the movie?
[00:13:32] Josh Margolin: It’s funny.
I think, I’m sure I learned a bit, I must have learned something, I hope.
I feel like once you’ve sent that money, it’s almost impossible to get it back.
Is that right, that more often than not once it’s sent there’s almost no way.
But it makes…
[00:14:13] Bob: And for some people it’s absolutely lifechanging.
It’s almost everything they have.
[00:14:18] Josh Margolin: Ooh, it really is.
Can you talk about that?
[00:14:57] Josh Margolin: Yeah.
[00:16:55] Bob: Having that moment.
[00:17:08] Josh Margolin: Of course, yes.
And many people end up becoming victim advocates in one way or another after an experience like this.
So we’re all about happy endings here.
[00:17:31] Josh Margolin: That’s amazing.
[00:17:41] Bob: Ultimately it is.
I have those conversations a lot and then sometimes we have a go at intercede.
But AARP does, does a great job of it.
[00:17:53] Josh Margolin: That’s a great resource, yeah.
[00:17:54] Bob: It’s not just for older people, yeah.
[00:17:56] Josh Margolin: That’s amazing.
[00:17:56] Bob: Can you talk about the reception for the movie?
What did you feel, and I’m wondering in particular if you heard from other victims of scams?
Like really beat for beat.
So it’s easier if you could say, remember that thing that happened to Thelma?
It happened to me too, so that’s a great service that you’ve done there.
[00:20:13] Josh Margolin: That’s a good question.
I’m trying to remember if there was one that was really stuck in my mind.
[00:20:53] Bob: You’ve hit on something that I think is really important.
[00:21:07] Josh Margolin: Yeah.
It’s like they’re making the Toyota Corolla of scams here.
[00:21:24] Josh Margolin: Yeah.
[00:21:45] Josh Margolin: Oh, that’s a good question, too.
[00:22:24] Bob: Film scripts are notorious for cutting out family members.
[00:22:40] Josh Margolin: I think just again, a support system.
[00:23:06] Bob: (laughs) I love that she appears in the movie at the end.
[00:23:24] (clip) Look at all those, look at all those bottoms of those trees.
Look, look, they’re, how gnarled they are and yet they live.
Look at photographs of this.
I mean it’s unbelievable.
This thing is still living.
Yeah, look at it.
It should be down on the, I mean it’s unbelievable.
Like how does that happen?
How does that work?
Isn’t that something?
And I always really loved that clip.
I, and I never knew what to do with it.
I never could, it never quite fit into one of these little documentaries I was making.
I just couldn’t, I couldn’t tie it to anything.
And so there’s a scene in the movie where she is doing that real dialog.
June is in the car with Fred, word for word, looking out at these trees.
[00:25:57] Bob: I’m also, I’m calling you out for cheating at this point.
You have a grandmother who write dialog for you.
That’s not fair.
[00:26:02] Josh Margolin: I know.
I was nervous about that.
I was like this; I think she might have written the best scene.
[00:26:08] Bob: (chuckles) It is a very beautiful sentiment too.
[00:26:17] Josh Margolin: Yeah.
They look, yeah, they’re so gnarled and twisted up, but they’re still standing.
Got to get it in there.
(applause)
[00:27:12] Josh Margolin: It was very meaningful; it was a surprise.
I mean, kudos to you for making such a meaningful movie and such an important relationship.
[00:28:14] Josh Margolin: Oh, thank you.
[00:28:25] Bob: It’s immediately charming, right?
Who doesn’t love a grandparent relationship.
That’s, it’s interesting.
More movies should explore that theme.
[00:28:31] Josh Margolin: I think so too.
I hope this cracks open a genre here.
I also hope it will make people think about maybe how they react when these things happen to people.
[00:30:47] Bob: It’s such a hard balance.
But you’re free to’t put them in bubble wrap.
[00:30:53] Josh Margolin: Exactly.
It feels like an impossible balance but one that I know, even striving for, feels admirable.
Just because they’re an older person doesn’t mean a mistake should end your life somehow.
[00:31:06] Josh Margolin: Yeah, exactly.
What was that like?
[00:31:28] Josh Margolin: It was amazing.
It was really surreal and strange, but also really fantastic.
I think if it, I don’t know who it would have been if it wasn’t her.
I’d always wanted it to be June.
I always had my heart set on June.
There, there’s something inherently similar about them.
And it was amazing.
[00:32:46] Bob: Josh, thank you so much for speaking withThe Perfect Scam.
[00:32:49] Josh Margolin: Thank you so much.
This has been great.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch data pipe Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
