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[00:00:31] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam.
I’m your host, Bob Sullivan.
There’s a lot of focus on high tech crime nowadays.
Something Nashville resident, Mark McPherson learned the hard way recently.
Do you want to just tell me what happened?
And I said, “No, that’s, that’s not it.
And they told me that I could come by and pick up the check uh later on that day.
So I went uh to that branch and picked it up.
[00:02:55] Bob: And when you picked it up, what did you see?
[00:02:58] Mark McPherson: Not the check I had written.
And I had never heard of it; I had no idea.
And who told the teller that he had done some electrical work for me.
[00:03:51] Bob: Wow.
And when you looked at this check, I mean it, did it look legit?
Could you tell it had been washed?
[00:03:57] Mark McPherson: Oh yeah.
No, I had no idea.
I had no idea it had been washed.
I mean it looked; it looked completely real.
[00:04:16] Mark McPherson: (laugh) Uh, it was pretty shocking.
I mean really I was; I dont mail a lot of checks.
I pay almost all of my bills online.
And I had never heard of anything like this.
[00:04:55] Bob: Wow!
What happened to the money?
[00:05:32] Mark McPherson: Oh, absolutely.
I couldn’t imagine something like that happening.
[00:05:59] Bob: And so should you.
Here are some remarkable numbers to know.
Banks filed 680,000 reports of check fraud to FinCEN last year, up from just 350,000 reports in 2021.
Our next guest, David Maimon, believes he knows what’s going on.
[00:06:48] Bob: And what is that?
We’ll get to that, but first I asked him to explain what exactly is check washing?
[00:07:45] Bob: And there’s a similar criminal tactic called cooking a check.
That’s, that’s essentially what cooking a check means.
[00:08:22] David Maimon: Right.
[00:08:25] Bob: Why is there a huge increase now rather suddenly?
Well, unfortunately, increased violence seems to have something to do with it.
This is, we believe, was a major driver for what we’re seeing right now.
[00:09:34] Bob: Some of the stories about mail carrier attacks are very disturbing.
Listen to this from WFTV in Florida.
What they’re after are keys.
[00:10:42] Bob: Think about it.
Most mail carriers are out there alone and follow very predictable patterns.
They are very vulnerable, and the numbers bear that out.
[00:11:17] (newsclip) They don’t have to rob a bank anymore.
[00:11:38] David Maimon: I, I agree.
[00:12:15] Bob: But why is this happening now?
The USPS police is, is not really providing protection at this point on the street.
you’re free to do it from home on your smart phone.
Does that play a role?
Not really, David thinks.
I mean and, and you are potentially going to be in trouble, right.
So, so it’s, it’s not that simple.
So that’s one way to go.
All right and this is one of the things that we are seeing happening a lot right now.
[00:16:16] Bob: Criminals spend months working on the reputation of these drop accounts.
And the runners are the end of the supply chain.
The runners are really good in finding the walkers who will not raise suspicion.
[00:17:35] Bob: Are many of these people like innocent bystanders, if you will.
Do they know that they’re participating in a crime?
[00:17:42] David Maimon: Many of them are.
I mean they’re getting paid for the service, so there’s a fee for that as well.
The fee for a walker ranges between 100 to 200 dollars per check.
But you know many of the individuals do not know that they participated in a criminal event.
I mean we’ve seen several videos where people did not know.
Some of them have suspicions.
Some of them do not care.
[00:19:59] Bob: So this makes a, a lot more sense to me.
[00:20:20] David Maimon: Yeah, that’s right.
Because once the criminals have the checks, they also have the victims' identities.
Taking loans on behalf of those victims.
So it’s a very sophisticated but elaborated supply chains with different actors responsible for different types of operations.
[00:22:07] Bob: Did you catch that?
Criminal gangs also use the information they steal for a host of additional crimes.
[00:22:21] David Maimon: Again, we talked about fetching the information on the individuals.
So you know, taking pictures of the stolen checks and offer them for sale.
So it’s all over the place right now.
And all of that makes theft easier.
It, it’s a very sophisticated operation.
[00:25:06] Bob: Doing an amazing job stealing a lot of money from us all.
[00:26:42] Bob: You must see some wild things.
We’re seeing, for example, the Yahoo Boys.
So we see those videos.
And then we’re seeing how much money they are losing.
The problem is that I see a lot of those checks, especially the due day of tax season.
So that, that is surprising and alarming.
We, we’re seeing a lot of checks that the government sends to citizens as well.
So think about all the IRS checks, where people are getting their tax refunds using checks.
Again, millions of dollars people are getting over their tax refunds.
And, and it’s alarming to see.
So I think personal checks now with low balances on them, can go for up to 250.
[00:31:16] Bob: After seeing all this crime firsthand, what does David recommend to consumers?
So those identity theft protection plan, folks should definitely have both for themselves and for their businesses.
You should definitely shouldn’t leave mail in, in your own private mailbox.
That’ll be your best bet to, to send a check to its destination.
[00:33:24] Bob: But there’s one more important point David had to share.
People just like you and me.
You might get approached playing an online game or on an online dating site or anywhere really.
What sorts of things should they be looking out for and suspicious of?
That’s, again, is a major red flag which folks should be aware of.
Time is of the essence.
Consumers can lose their ability to get a refund for failing to report fraud in a timely manner.
But here’s what’s really important to understand about check washing.
Those situations are usually governed by federal regulations that are pretty consumer friendly.
Victims must receive at least a provisional credit within 10 days, for example.
With check fraud, things are not so simple.
That’s governed by state laws.
[00:35:50] David Maimon: Most often the banks will reimburse you for the stolen money.
The problem is, it, it sometimes will take time.
But now that he knows just how serious and prevalent the problem is, he’s speaking out.
You know I, what I thought, you know my, my insurance company is just four letters.
[00:37:24] Bob: Has this incident impacted the way that you pay your bills?
[00:37:28] Mark McPherson: Oh, absolutely.
I, I don’t write a check at all now.
[00:38:20] Bob: Wow.
People wanted to blame him.
Fortunately, that hasn’t kept him from speaking out.
[00:39:19] Mark McPherson: Number one, never put a check in your mailbox.
You know I live in what would be considered a upper middleclass neighborhood.
So there’s no reason whatsoever to ever put a check inside your mailbox.
If you have to write a check, write it, a gel-based check.
If you have to mail it, go inside the post office.
[00:40:03] Bob: You never want to go through this.
Criminals are out there looking to steal your checks.
Make it as hard for them as you might.
Call the AARP Fraud Watch web link Helpline at 877-908-3360.
Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next.
Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
For AARP’s The Perfect Scam, I’m Bob Sullivan.
